Christians: Biblical Errancy vs. Inerrancy (translation, hell, doctrine, zealous)

[sojourner]

It was the Holy Spirit who guided them both to write all things Jesus said to the apostlses while upon the earth (John 14:26 ; 16:13).

Neither of those scriptures are cogent to the issue of Biblical inerrancy. However, they are cogent to the issue of the authority of Holy Tradition.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Baerly

I think you have misunderstood the article. The point was if it did happen this is what the odds would be. Not only did it all happen, but much much more happened and it was all precise. It can all be traced back to the O.T. -- the begining of the church,time,place,the way it began,who would be flowing into it ,how Jesus would die,what he would say,what he would ride into town on,what would be done as he died,what happened to the temple,Him raising from the dead in three days,and on and on.These were all prophecied about in th O.T. and they all came true just as they were prophecied.

The odds, obviously, can be applied to a related question: did the apostles relate several Messianic prophesies to Jesus falsely?

We know (assuming that your data is correct) that it is foolish to even think that one man - even Jesus himself - could fulfill but a few of the OT prophesies, isn't it foolish beyond reason to take a few writings at their word?!

I mean, you've shown that the odds are 1 in 50million that the odds are that Jesus could fulfill a few prophesies and then the same odds apply to the testimony that it actually happened.

[Baerly]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

The odds, obviously, can be applied to a related question: did the apostles relate several Messianic prophesies to Jesus falsely?

We know (assuming that your data is correct) that it is foolish to even think that one man - even Jesus himself - could fulfill but a few of the OT prophesies, isn't it foolish beyond reason to take a few writings at their word?!

I mean, you've shown that the odds are 1 in 50million that the odds are that Jesus could fulfill a few prophesies and then the same odds apply to the testimony that it actually happened.

Can you prove the apostles related several Messianic prophesies to Jesus falsely? Myself I believe (John 14:26 ; 16:13) when the bible says the Holy Spirit Guided the apostles to remember everything Jesus said to the apostles while he was on earth.Then the H.S. guided them as they wrote the words in each letter.

Agai,I think you have misunderstood the article.

[RevOxley_501]

here is a question i would like answered:

can we use the book in question to prove itself?

in other words, so what if the BIBLE says its all true---the quran says the same thing--should a verse that roughly says the scriptures are perfect be used as evidence?

[Baerly]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

The odds, obviously, can be applied to a related question: did the apostles relate several Messianic prophesies to Jesus falsely?

We know (assuming that your data is correct) that it is foolish to even think that one man - even Jesus himself - could fulfill but a few of the OT prophesies, isn't it foolish beyond reason to take a few writings at their word?!

I mean, you've shown that the odds are 1 in 50million that the odds are that Jesus could fulfill a few prophesies and then the same odds apply to the testimony that it actually happened.

Hi, how are you? I wrote the person who wrote the article and asked him to explain and he wrote back with this:

I was quoting from Emil Borel
who made the statement you are referring to. It seems to me that Mr.
Borel's
belief was that the possibility of one man fulfilling forty-eight
prophecies, mathematically speaking, would be so small that it would be
impossible for him to fulfill all forty-eight prophecies. Other than
that, I
don't know what else he might have been thinking of. It certainly wouldn't
be impossible to "think" they might occur, but impossible mathematically
speaking.
in love Baerly

[Baerly]

Originally Posted by RevOxley_501

here is a question i would like answered:

can we use the book in question to prove itself?

in other words, so what if the BIBLE says its all true---the quran says the same thing--should a verse that roughly says the scriptures are perfect be used as evidence?

This is a powerful lesson. Its part 2, so you might have to look on the website
"Gospel preceptor" and find lesson #1. It would be worth the search.

Tommy J. Hicks:The Bible's Author Is Go, No. 2
The Bible's Author Is God, No. 2 Tommy J. Hicks EDITOR'S NOTE: This is the second of a series of articles on the Authorship of the Bible. This...
URL: http://www.gospelpreceptor.com/HicksTJ3.htm - 8k - 01 Aug 2005

[Baerly]

This lesson is from the preachersfiles.com

The Authority of the Bible

July 30, 2004 by Tom Moore - North Main church of Christ, Malvern, AR
I. Introduction
A. We are living in a time when a great many people have little or no respect for authority.
1. Our jails are full of those who do not respect the authority of our government.
2. We have many children in our world today who do not respect the authority of their parents
3. And there is a host of people who do not respect the authority of the Bible
B. We today need to recognize authority ....
The captain on the bridge of a large naval vessel saw a light ahead on a collision course. He signaled, "Alter your course ten degrees south." The reply came back, "Alter your course ten degrees north."
The captain then signaled, "Alter your course ten degrees south. I am a captain." The reply: "Alter your course ten degrees north. I am a seaman third-class."
The furious captain signaled, "Alter your course ten degrees south. I am a battleship." The reply: "Alter your course ten degrees north. I am a lighthouse."
C. If we do not recognize where true authority lies - then we will be making many wrong decisions in this life.
II. Discussion
A. THE INSPIRED, INERRANT WORD OF GOD EXISTS
1. Acts 10:36 ... The word of God was sent to us through Jesus Christ
2. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ... inspired, furnishes us completely
3. John 17:17 ... God's word is truth
4. John 8:32 ... this truth can set us free
5. John 17:7-8 ... what Jesus taught were the very words of God the Father
6. The Bible is the very oracles of God (Romans 3:2)
7. The Bible is the sword of the Spirit (Ephesians 6:17)
8. 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 ... the Bible is the word of reconciliation
9. The Bible is the word of righteousness (Hebrews 5:13)
10."Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it" (Psalm 119:140) ... free of corruption, free of error
11.God's word will ultimately judge everyone ... John 12:48
B. THE BIBLE IS COMPLETE, UNIFIED, AND INDESTRUCTIBLE
1. 2 Peter 1:3 ... all-sufficient
2. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ... completely furnishes us...
3. James 1:25 ... those obedient to the Bible will be blessed
4. 2 Peter 1:20-21 ... Holy men spake by the Holy Spirit
a. Sixty-six books ... written over a period of 1600 years, by forty different men (with varying backgrounds), in three languages
b. Yet the Bible is perfect in harmony...
5. "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven" (Psalm 119:89).
6. 1 Peter 1:23-25 ... shall stand forever
C. THE WORD OF GOD IS ...
1. Powerful ... Hebrews 4:12-13
2. Able to cleanse ... "Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word" (Psalm 119:9).
3. Capable of purifying the soul ... 1 Peter 1:22
4. Able to build one up ... Acts 20:32
5. Perfect ... James 1:25
6. Complete ... 2 Timothy 3:16-17
7. Enduring ... Matthew 24:35
D. CHRIST HAS ALL AUTHORITY AND HAS GIVEN US INSTRUCTIONS
1. Authority was given to Jesus by the Father ...Matthew 28:18
2. Today Christ speaks through the Bible ... Hebrews 1:1-2
3. Christ's words are truth ... John 17:17
4. The way of salvation is not found in man's words ... Jeremiah 10:23
5. We must do all by the authority of Christ ... Colossians 3:17
6. Christ's words can be understood ... Ephesians 3:3-4
E. WE MUST FOLLOW AND KEEP THE WORD OF GOD
1. If we love Christ we will obey Him ... John 14:15
2. We must study to be approved of God ... 2 Timothy 2:15
3. We must remember God's word ... 2 Peter 3:2
4. Hold forth the word of life ... Philippians 2:16
5. Hold to sound words ... 2 Timothy 1:13
6. Continue in God's word ... 2 Timothy 3:14
7. Preach the word ... 2 Timothy 4:2
8. Standfast for God's word ... 2 Thessalonians 2:15
9. Be an example in the word ... 1 Timothy 4:12
10.Contend earnestly for the faith ... Jude 3
F. WE MUST HANDLE GOD'S WORD ARIGHT
1. Handle God's word in the right way ... 2 Corinthians 4:2
2. Study to be able to handle God word in the right way ... 2 Timothy 2:15
3. Do not hear only ... James 1:22
4. Do not be led astray ... 2 Peter 2:1; 3:9
5. Do not be deceived ... Ephesians 5:6-10
G. GOD WARNS US NOT TO HANDLE HIS WORD IN THE WRONG WAY
1. Do not add to or take away from the word of God ...
a. Deuteronomy 4:2
b. Proverbs 30:5-6
c. Revelation 22:18-19
2. Do not pervert the Gospel ... Galatians 1:6-10
3. We are not to be unskilled in God's word ... Hebrews 5:12
4. We must be knowledgeable ... Romans 10:2-3
5. We must not be disobedient ... Hebrews 2:1-3
6. The Bible will judge us ... John 12:48
III. Conclusion
A. We must respect authority, and most importantly we must respect God's authority.
B. We truly respect the word of God, we will:
1. Study it
2. Love it
3. Obey it
C. If we do not respect God's authority we will not go to heaven

[Katzpur]

I have absolutely no inclination to plow through every verse you listed in your post, Baerly, but somehow I knew, before I even scanned your list, that you'd come up with this one:

Originally Posted by Baerly

B. THE BIBLE IS COMPLETE, UNIFIED, AND INDESTRUCTIBLE
6. Complete ... 2 Timothy 3:16-17

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of Godmay be competent, equipped for every good work."

Nowhere in these verses do I see either the word "complete," a synonym for "complete" or a description of something that is "complete."

But since you are obviously reading it differently than I am, would you mind telling me where I can find the book of Jasher? How about the book of Samuel the seer? What about the book of Jehu? I'd be interested in reading Paul's epistle to the Laodiceans and Jude's other epistle. Would you be so kind as to direct me to them?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Baerly

Can you prove the apostles related several Messianic prophesies to Jesus falsely? Myself I believe (John 14:26 ; 16:13) when the bible says the Holy Spirit Guided the apostles to remember everything Jesus said to the apostles while he was on earth.Then the H.S. guided them as they wrote the words in each letter.

Agai,I think you have misunderstood the article.

Even if the Apostles did remember everything Jesus told them, they didn't record it all. John 21:25 states, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written."

Perhaps you think that the majority of the things Jesus said and did were not important enough for them to have written down, and that they did record everything He said that mattered. Look at the length of the four gospel accounts of His life. Do you honestly believe that everything He said or did that mattered was recorded? He must have wasted a lot of time, if that's the case!