christians - judging (LDS, faith, religion, Mormon)

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Which is an example of juding? Which is an example of "throwing stones"?

1. "Rape is bad."
2. "You are bad, because you raped someone."

Both? Neither? One or the other?

Both are an example of judging. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by afdragon2006

Rap is bad.....

Good judgement.

[Mister_T]

Well first,we should not be judging anybody. That's God's job not ours. Second, I think you would have to deceifer what makes bad "bad". Just because you may consider something as bad doesn't mean that it's bad for others. I think we can all agree that intentionally hurting people, and evil intent is bad. Rape definatley falls under those categories. And although we should not pass judgement, we should rise up against injustice. If we see emotional or physical harm being done to others we should not stand by idle.

[sojourner]

The judgment that we're talking about here is the judgment of other people. It has nothing to do with judging acts or thoughts or situations. It has to do with standing in judgment of people -- judging their inherent qualities: Are they a "good person" or a "bad person?" There are no bad people. God made everyone good!

Jesus said (paraphrasing), "Don't judge other people. If you do, you may be judged, yourself." Isn't that what's happened to we Christians? We got into the judgment game -- judgment against street people, judgment against other races, judgment against those of differing faiths, judgment against (dare I say it)...homosexuals. And look at the judgment that has been returned upon us! I read all kinds of threads about how atheists became atheists because they hate the judgmental nature of those who profess to belong to and speak for God.

We can make a judgment about actions all we want to. but when that judgment then "leaks" over into a judgment about the character or motives of the person who's acting, then we've crossed the line. Love dosn't cast judgment upon the loved. Love simply accepts the loved for who they are, just as they are. One has to be responsible for one's own beliefs and actions. It's not up to others to see that one believes or behaves in certain "acceptable" ways.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by sojourner

The judgment that we're talking about here is the judgment of other people. It has nothing to do with judging acts or thoughts or situations. It has to do with standing in judgment of people -- judging their inherent qualities: Are they a "good person" or a "bad person?" There are no bad people. God made everyone good!

Jesus said (paraphrasing), "Don't judge other people. If you do, you may be judged, yourself." Isn't that what's happened to we Christians? We got into the judgment game -- judgment against street people, judgment against other races, judgment against those of differing faiths, judgment against (dare I say it)...homosexuals. And look at the judgment that has been returned upon us! I read all kinds of threads about how atheists became atheists because they hate the judgmental nature of those who profess to belong to and speak for God.

We can make a judgment about actions all we want to. but when that judgment then "leaks" over into a judgment about the character or motives of the person who's acting, then we've crossed the line. Love dosn't cast judgment upon the loved. Love simply accepts the loved for who they are, just as they are. One has to be responsible for one's own beliefs and actions. It's not up to others to see that one believes or behaves in certain "acceptable" ways.

Whilst I agree with the vast majority of what you've written, I can't accept that love simply accepts people just as they are. That's a sort of wishy washy view of love that I simply don't believe to be true. If you have a child who is doing something destructive (either to themselves or others) do you just accept it, or try to correct their behaviour? I would argue that it is far more loving in such a circumstance to step in and intervene, even if they see such intervention as unloving. Correction can and should be motivated by love and an unwillingness to attempt such correction seems to me to be rather superficial. Love can be harsh at times as well as accepting, the trick is to discern at which point one approach or the other is required.

James

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

Whilst I agree with the vast majority of what you've written, I can't accept that love simply accepts people just as they are. That's a sort of wishy washy view of love that I simply don't believe to be true. If you have a child who is doing something destructive (either to themselves or others) do you just accept it, or try to correct their behaviour? I would argue that it is far more loving in such a circumstance to step in and intervene, even if they see such intervention as unloving. Correction can and should be motivated by love and an unwillingness to attempt such correction seems to me to be rather superficial. Love can be harsh at times as well as accepting, the trick is to discern at which point one approach or the other is required.

James

That's old-school, colonial theology -- the same kind of theology that helped Christians justify slavery. "We are the ones that 'know better,' so it's our responsibility to teach them the proper way of life." We succeeded in destroying the indian cultures in this manner.

Paul tells us that "love never insists on its own way." There is no "trick," as you say, to loving someone. Love is unconditional. What is wishy-washy about deciding to love someone, no matter what they've done? I see it as a highly-directed attitude.

In your world, who gets to decide what's the "proper" color, or what's the "proper" social standing, or what's the "proper" sexual persuasion, or what's the "proper" sex? These people have all been discriminated against, because the elitists have judged them to be "improper."

This doesn't have anything to do with correcting children, or keeping children from hurting themselves. Other people are not our children, and they are not our responsibility. God is their Father -- not us.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by sojourner

That's old-school, colonial theology -- the same kind of theology that helped Christians justify slavery. "We are the ones that 'know better,' so it's our responsibility to teach them the proper way of life." We succeeded in destroying the indian cultures in this manner.

Paul tells us that "love never insists on its own way." There is no "trick," as you say, to loving someone. Love is unconditional. What is wishy-washy about deciding to love someone, no matter what they've done? I see it as a highly-directed attitude.

In your world, who gets to decide what's the "proper" color, or what's the "proper" social standing, or what's the "proper" sexual persuasion, or what's the "proper" sex? These people have all been discriminated against, because the elitists have judged them to be "improper."

This doesn't have anything to do with correcting children, or keeping children from hurting themselves. Other people are not our children, and they are not our responsibility. God is their Father -- not us.

I don't know how you got from what I posted to colonialism, but never mind. You seem to be very good at leaping to conclusions and judging others for what you think they said without really reading what they actually said. Of course love is unconditional. Do you think that you stop loving someone because you try to correct them? I certainly never said any such thing. I said that such correction should be motivated by love. I'm fully aware that other people are not my children, but that does not mean that the principle that if I see someone I love hurting themselves or others I shouldn't try to help, even if that means correcting them. I would say that you show greater love by being concerned enough to try and prevent the harm caused by another's actions than you do by simply sitting back and 'accepting' them. That's not to say that you can't be wrong, everyone makes mistakes, but that's where the discernment I mentioned comes in.

James