Christian-War/Homosexuality (Jesus, morals, beliefs, followers, minority)

[sdotbrown]

Just wondering how so many followers of Jesus could support the war, but be heavily against homosexuality. As far as I know Jesus taught to forgive, and also not to kill anyone. I am hoping someone can explain this to me, because it doesnt seem to add up in my view. I am not saying that I think homosexuality is a good thing, but I don't consider someone a bad person if they are homosexual.

[SoyLeche]

I fail to see how war and homosexuality are related in any way. Why should one's position on one of these issues affect their position on the other?

[michel]

Originally Posted by sdotbrown

Just wondering how so many followers of Jesus could support the war, but be heavily against homosexuality. As far as I know Jesus taught to forgive, and also not to kill anyone. I am hoping someone can explain this to me, because it doesnt seem to add up in my view. I am not saying that I think homosexuality is a good thing, but I don't consider someone a bad person if they are homosexual.

If you look at the war having been sarted in order to free a country of a dreadfully cruel dictator (if that was the intent), I can see the 'sin' of killing as the lesser of two evils, which makes it, I suppose an 'excusable sin'.

What is more, from what I understand, it is not Homosexuality which is considered a sin, it is the act of sex between homosexuals. Not that I see that as a sin...........

[Fluffy]

I fail to see how war and homosexuality are related in any way. Why should one's position on one of these issues affect their position on the other?

This is just a guess but sdotbrown might be trying to highlight the different form that these two "immoralities" appear to take. Morals can be mostly split into two categories, those that try and reduce suffering and those which must merely be accepted. Homosexuality falls into the latter whilst war would be dealth with in the first.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

This is just a guess but sdotbrown might be trying to highlight the different form that these two "immoralities" appear to take. Morals can be mostly split into two categories, those that try and reduce suffering and those which must merely be accepted. Homosexuality falls into the latter whilst war would be dealth with in the first.

But the question was "how can you be for the war and against homosexuality". Since the two issues are independant of each other, it should be fairly easy to take the different stances.

[sdotbrown]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

But the question was "how can you be for the war and against homosexuality". Since the two issues are independant of each other, it should be fairly easy to take the different stances.

I made an error writing homosexuality there when I should have written homosexuals. But I ask the question in the context that Jesus' clearly states that killing someone is wrong. I do not know of a place in the bible where he says it is ok to kill someone. Jesus also clearly says that you should forgive people time and time again. If you are a christian how can you accept killing as justified, but also say that homosexuals dont deserve equal rights.

[Fluffy]

But the question was "how can you be for the war and against homosexuality". Since the two issues are independant of each other, it should be fairly easy to take the different stances.

It depends how parsimonious your ethical structure is. For some people, like myself, morality is based on a very small group of beliefs that are then applied to every situation. In this case it would depend on your reason for supporting the war. If you supported a war in order to liberate a people from oppression but, in turn, a oppressed a minority in your own country (ie homosexuals) then you are not applying your morals evenly and so must either change your belief in one of the instances or give up the master moral.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by sdotbrown

Just wondering how so many followers of Jesus could support the war, but be heavily against homosexuality. As far as I know Jesus taught to forgive, and also not to kill anyone. I am hoping someone can explain this to me, because it doesnt seem to add up in my view.

You've just given two examples of a phenomenon noted by Bertrand Russell: "Clergymen almost necessarily fail in two ways as teachers of morals. They condemn acts which do no harm and they condone acts which do great harm."

[andrew67]

Originally Posted by sdotbrown

I made an error writing homosexuality there when I should have written homosexuals. But I ask the question in the context that Jesus' clearly states that killing someone is wrong. I do not know of a place in the bible where he says it is ok to kill someone. Jesus also clearly says that you should forgive people time and time again. If you are a christian how can you accept killing as justified, but also say that homosexuals dont deserve equal rights.

The only verse I remember is "those who live by the sword, must also die by the sword." If you are the one fighting in the war then yes it is permissable because you are serving the law of the land, to serve in the army.

Yes homosexuals are human beings too. But being christians how can you accept equal rights for homosexuals if that will keep said persons in sin thinking that it is justified when they obtain equal rights. We condemn the homosexual act not the person. This sin is no worse than commiting a sexual act with a woman to God, although by most societal standards is not valued as equal. It is the same essence of sin of lusting of the flesh. But the sense of complacency while in this sin is not and will never be accepted. This sense of complacency only deceives them and is used just to relieve themselves of the guilt of sin.

Many people use the example of this behavior being natural and found in the animal kingdom. What is not accounted for in this depiction is that individuals in that popluation are naturally selected against and weeded out of populations because their fitness, ability to reproduce, is zero. This behavior is destructive to a population of individuals, and can lead to the population being wiped out. This type of selfish behavior of the few hurts the majority. (Sounds alot like muslim extremist activities, but I dont see the media or anyone ever defending them.) Also another problem with this depiction is why would we compare ourselves to animals, we are obviously more advanced than animals. We as humans have the ability to control our desires in order to fulfill what is more beneficial, unlike animals.

This sin should not be placed higher than any other sin, for to God the punishment for sin is death.

[muichimotsu]

You do realize that in the historical context of the Christian bible, they had no concept of gayness? They merely thought that the sexual practices were strange. At least back then they probably would have just stayed away from the person. Now, Christians dehumanize and put these people in a different area of acceptance (human not sin) merely because they don't put a penis in a vagina. Like that's even the way some married male/female couples even always do it. There's a reason why God gave you a mouth and a rectum. And there are other ways of using them besides eating and defecating. And to add lastly...you realize that makes the Christian god not only a homophobe, but a xenophobe?