Idea Of How Judgment works (ritual, punishment, Earth, salvation)

[friedrice118]

Heaven, Hell, or somewhere in Between

Some Christians choose to not believe in Satan or hell, its like they think they inevitably go to heaven after life. When I catch myself questioning existence of Hell, I think about what im doing and realize that im using "ignorance" as an excuse to enter heaven. I would have to tell God that I sinned because I chose not to believe I would be punished. I would tell him I sinned because I was unaware of Hell, but I was aware I just chose to the possibility. You can't play stupid when God looks you in the eye and asks you if you knew of hell's existence, because of course you didn’t know if Hell truly existed. You chose not to believe in punishment in an attempt to avoid it. Avoiding Hell and Ignorance of Hell are two different things, but one can trick themselves into thinking they can "beat the system" per say.

- That is my personal view on believing in Hell. Sometimes I think if I label myself as a non believer, I can say I was unaware of Hell and lived life oblivious to its existence. This is dangerous because God will (probably) say, there is a Hell, now what are you going to do. I cant say I never believed in Hell because there was no proof, because there is no proof Heaven either, but I chose to believe in Heaven. The God will say to me, belief in eternal salvation walks hand in hand with eternal damnation. Then maybe he'll send me to Hell, or maybe he'll ask me... Do you believe in heaven? If I say yes, I go to hell (because belief in heaven means belief in hell), but if I say, "No God, I do not believe in heaven, because I chose not to believe in hell, and I cannot take the gamble to achieve eternal salvation without the risk of eternal damnation. I am not allowed to have a shot at the win unless I am unwilling to face the consequences of a loss." Then I get a second chance.

- The reason you would be damned if you chose to believe in heaven during judgment, is because you "played it safe" during your life (test), and chose to believe you had a chance at entering heaven without the risk of entering hell. During life you bet with fake money, if you win, you cannot receive the prize because you wanted to take the good without the bad.

- If you think deeply, you realize God was giving him a choice to enter heaven or hell by asking you a trick question to prove yourself worthy. When God asks you if you believe in Heaven, he was giving you another chance to "beat the system", he was giving you another chance to pretend your worthy of Heaven while being excused from the possibility of hell.

- If you chose not to believe in Heaven, it shows God that you are taking responsibility for your mistake, and that you are willing to give up the chance of heaven because you never accepted the chance of hell. Then God would send you to heaven.

ex: You are not allowed to bet fake money and real money If you win. If you are going to take the chance to enter in Heaven, I must be willing to enter Hell if I lose the bet.

This is how I believe God works. It is not fair that the person loses his chance at heaven because he accidentally lived a lie. It impresses God if you forget about how you got "screwed" and admit your mistake and suffer the consequences of it. In result the consequences are waved and you get to enter heaven because of how you showed maturity and responsibility.

Imagine if this is how you were judged. Imagine if God asked you questions to see if you were worthy or not. If you were asked a question like the example above, you would not know that your judgment is a result of the answer. If you decided to dwell on how you were tricked out of your salvation by believing a lie, instead of accepting responsibility you will not get to enter heaven.

- Honestly I doubt God would send you to hell, because he realizes that you were in fact "tricked" out of your salvation and your reaction was appropriate. It takes a more noble person to admit he was wrong, and willingly give up his chance at heaven because he did not earn it. You thought you were playing with real money but it was fake, Satan leads you to believe your moneys real while all along you have no chance at winning. If you do not show the same character as a noble person you probably would go to purgatory is be reincarnated.

- I think the only reason God would send you to hell was if you blamed your misfortune on him.

So in order to get to heaven you must express an above average reaction to the question. To be reincarnated or enter purgatory you have to choose to play it safe again, and to go to hell you have to put all the blame of your misfortune on God.

- I understand that there are ways around answering the question with only one of the three answers, But I want to hear which choice you would pick, and if you think the result of your choice would be fair.

Keep in mind that God's intent is not to deceive you, but to find out how good of a person you truly are.

I hope you all have fun with this
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Addition- I realize how metaphorical the situation is above. So I will give another, more direct variation of the situation.

A person is born mentally ill and beleives he's are possesed throughout his life. As a result, he ruins lives and hurts people. God tells him he wont get into Heaven for his as a rseult.

His choices.

1. Accept his fait, he knows he it wasnt his fault but takes responsability for the mistake. He leaves the decision in God's hands to where he goes from here.


2. Blames God on his misfortune and claims he is responsible. He says, You could have come down and pointed me in the right direction, but you chose not to. You let me trick myself all along and never gave me the chance to live a good life. All you had to do was tell me I wasn't possesed, its would be so easy, but you chose not to.

unlike the other variation, he cannot there is no choice of "stuborness".

[michel]

Originally Posted by friedrice118

Heaven, Hell, or somewhere in Between

Some Christians choose to not believe in Satan or hell, its like they think they inevitably go to heaven after life. When I catch myself questioning existence of Hell, I think about what im doing and realize that im using "ignorance" as an excuse to enter heaven. I would have to tell God that I sinned because I chose not to believe I would be punished. I would tell him I sinned because I was unaware of Hell, but I was aware I just chose to the possibility. You can't play stupid when God looks you in the eye and asks you if you knew of hell's existence, because of course you didn’t know if Hell truly existed. You chose not to believe in punishment in an attempt to avoid it. Avoiding Hell and Ignorance of Hell are two different things, but one can trick themselves into thinking they can "beat the system" per say.

- That is my personal view on believing in Hell. Sometimes I think if I label myself as a non believer, I can say I was unaware of Hell and lived life oblivious to its existence. This is dangerous because God will (probably) say, there is a Hell, now what are you going to do. I cant say I never believed in Hell because there was no proof, because there is no proof Heaven either, but I chose to believe in Heaven. The God will say to me, belief in eternal salvation walks hand in hand with eternal damnation. Then maybe he'll send me to Hell, or maybe he'll ask me... Do you believe in heaven? If I say yes, I go to hell (because belief in heaven means belief in hell), but if I say, "No God, I do not believe in heaven, because I chose not to believe in hell, and I cannot take the gamble to achieve eternal salvation without the risk of eternal damnation. I am not allowed to have a shot at the win unless I am unwilling to face the consequences of a loss." Then I get a second chance.

- The reason you would be damned if you chose to believe in heaven during judgment, is because you "played it safe" during your life (test), and chose to believe you had a chance at entering heaven without the risk of entering hell. During life you bet with fake money, if you win, you cannot receive the prize because you wanted to take the good without the bad.

- If you think deeply, you realize God was giving him a choice to enter heaven or hell by asking you a trick question to prove yourself worthy. When God asks you if you believe in Heaven, he was giving you another chance to "beat the system", he was giving you another chance to pretend your worthy of Heaven while being excused from the possibility of hell.

- If you chose not to believe in Heaven, it shows God that you are taking responsibility for your mistake, and that you are willing to give up the chance of heaven because you never accepted the chance of hell. Then God would send you to heaven.

ex: You are not allowed to bet fake money and real money If you win. If you are going to take the chance to enter in Heaven, I must be willing to enter Hell if I lose the bet.

This is how I believe God works. It is not fair that the person loses his chance at heaven because he accidentally lived a lie. It impresses God if you forget about how you got "screwed" and admit your mistake and suffer the consequences of it. In result the consequences are waved and you get to enter heaven because of how you showed maturity and responsibility.

Imagine if this is how you were judged. Imagine if God asked you questions to see if you were worthy or not. If you were asked a question like the example above, you would not know that your judgment is a result of the answer. If you decided to dwell on how you were tricked out of your salvation by believing a lie, instead of accepting responsibility you will not get to enter heaven.

- Honestly I doubt God would send you to hell, because he realizes that you were in fact "tricked" out of your salvation and your reaction was appropriate. It takes a more noble person to admit he was wrong, and willingly give up his chance at heaven because he did not earn it. You thought you were playing with real money but it was fake, Satan leads you to believe your moneys real while all along you have no chance at winning. If you do not show the same character as a noble person you probably would go to purgatory is be reincarnated.

- I think the only reason God would send you to hell was if you blamed your misfortune on him.

So in order to get to heaven you must express an above average reaction to the question. To be reincarnated or enter purgatory you have to choose to play it safe again, and to go to hell you have to put all the blame of your misfortune on God.

- I understand that there are ways around answering the question with only one of the three answers, But I want to hear which choice you would pick, and if you think the result of your choice would be fair.

Keep in mind that God's intent is not to deceive you, but to find out how good of a person you truly are.

I hope you all have fun with this

I would have more 'fun' with it if I knew what the three options are, a little more clearly..........

[friedrice118]

Lol, sorry I know its confusing

1. I beleive in heaven.- Choosing this means your being stubborn, You still beleive you have the right to Heaven though you cheated your way through life.

2. I dont beleive in Heaven- Willingly giving up all chances of salvation because you know that you even though it was an accident, it was your mistake.

3. I was tricked, How was I supposed to know that ignoring hell's existance would have such consiquences. You should let me off the hook, you never came down and told me Hell was real, its your fault I walked myself into a trap.

I neglected to mention that as a result of not beleiving in hell, your life was full of sin, you sinned because you ignored the possibility of punishment.

[EnhancedSpirit]

We will see what we look for. When we see fault and judgment, we are in reality faulting and judging ourselves, for what we see in another is just a mirror of our own state of mind. When we see only God, love, and blessing, that is what we give to ourselves. Whether we see it or not, that is what is there, for that is what God created. Faulty perception doesn’t create truth; it just creates the reality we live in. We can see the glory of what God would have us see. If we see fault, then we are creating separation from ourselves, from God, and our Brothers and Sisters. Spirit would guide us to remain in a state of oneness at all times, for all is God.

God's judgement will not be a courtlike setting, it is just a statement of what mistakes have been made.

[friedrice118]

Im having trouble understanding what your saying. If we recognize our sins as being more than mistakes we are turned further away from God? What I am confused about is, when your mistakes are stated, what happens from there?

Im not criticizing, I'm just having trouble breaking down your point of view. It sounds like the philosophy of reality being how one perceives it. When you see fault in others, your faulting yourself. - Like, you should try to look for the best in people and not jump to conlusions.

It sound like this one passage from the bible- One group of men look at a man who is not drinking any wine. They see him as a "party pooper". The same group of men see a man who is drinking wine and dancing. They see him as a drunk and a sinner.

Like, no matter what the person does, he will be judged by the group in a negative way. Whether he drinks or not he will be looked down upon. I always thought that was a very wise passage.

[EnhancedSpirit]

The way it has been described to me is that what the Christian bible has come to call Judgement Day, is actually 3 days of constant unconditional love, and evaluation of your most recent incarnation. You will be shown your mistakes, then you are given the opportunity to come back and do it right, or remain in the lower state of spiritual developement. God gave us free will, and never did he say that our free will was limited to one incarnation, then taken away. We always have a choice, even after death.

[Darkdale]

All the punishment for our deeds is reaped on earth, not the afterlife. I think we live on in our decsendants and in our deeds forever. Our souls don't "go" anywhere. They change like everything else. Belief in hell and punishment are not mutually exclusive. Heaven is our fantasy. Some more fantastic than others, but if your believe in things like Wyrd and Karma, you know you'll live on in your deeds. I think people think too much on the "where and what" of the afterlife. Everything changes. Nothing is forever. Not even God. Everything changes. That's life. Acceptance of that breeds strength.

[friedrice118]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

The way it has been described to me is that what the Christian bible has come to call Judgement Day, is actually 3 days of constant unconditional love, and evaluation of your most recent incarnation. You will be shown your mistakes, then you are given the opportunity to come back and do it right, or remain in the lower state of spiritual developement. God gave us free will, and never did he say that our free will was limited to one incarnation, then taken away. We always have a choice, even after death.

Thats a very interesting philospophy. Its as if you are put back into the same situations and relive the exact moments (like purgatory perhaps?).

[friedrice118]

Originally Posted by Darkdale

All the punishment for our deeds is reaped on earth, not the afterlife. I think we live on in our decsendants and in our deeds forever. Our souls don't "go" anywhere. They change like everything else. Belief in hell and punishment are not mutually exclusive. Heaven is our fantasy. Some more fantastic than others, but if your believe in things like Wyrd and Karma, you know you'll live on in your deeds. I think people think too much on the "where and what" of the afterlife. Everything changes. Nothing is forever. Not even God. Everything changes. That's life. Acceptance of that breeds strength.

Seems like a philosophy of, everything is infinite, but is based around time and changing. As if you stay in the world and live on and on, and within each life you can move up or down in your karma. There are so many creatures on earth, your reincarnation is based on your actions previously which decide which creature you become.

[Idontknow]

Well i see one plot hole in all this heaven/hell thing, imagine you were the worst human scum on earth and the moment before you die you find a priest and you are truly sorry for all the "sins" you did, then you get heaven, right? cool...
now heres a question for you friedrice, what is heaven for you? and if you say peace forever, what peace means for you?