Christian: What is a Christian? (Jesus Christ, reject, salvation, beliefs)

[Katzpur]

I was going to make this a poll, but polls are so difficult. No matter how hard you try, you don’t provide enough options to suit everybody. But having just been told for the gazillionth time that I am not a Christian, I would like very much to hear where you draw the line and why. Personally, I don’t exclude anyone from the Christian family who sincerely considers himself to be a Christian. But a lot of other people do – and for a variety of reasons. The following criteria seem to be the most often mentioned:

1. A Christian must look to Jesus Christ for salvation and worship Him as God’s Only Begotten Son.

2. A Christian must accept certain core doctrines above and beyond a belief in Jesus Christ’s divinity and power to save. I’m thinking of such doctrines as “sola scriptura, sola fide, the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc.

3. A Christian must pattern his or her life in accordance with Jesus’ example of loving one’s enemies and treating the entire human family with compassion and respect.

4. A Christian must be “born again.” Once such a person becomes a Christian he is assured of salvation no matter what.

Could we please discuss these four criteria, and any others you believe apply? I would also like to know where everyone’s definition comes from, be it from the Bible, the teachings of his or her own denomination, from a personal conviction, etc. And please, let’s not get into which denominations are or are not “the genuine article.” Let’s stick to a discussion of what a Christian is.

[Fluffy]

post deleted. Reason same faith debates

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I was going to make this a poll, but polls are so difficult. No matter how hard you try, you don’t provide enough options to suit everybody. But having just been told for the gazillionth time that I am not a Christian, I would like very much to hear where you draw the line and why. Personally, I don’t exclude anyone from the Christian family who sincerely considers himself to be a Christian. But a lot of other people do – and for a variety of reasons. The following criteria seem to be the most often mentioned:

Well, I'm more or less with you on this. I think that anyone who tries to follow Christ and considers themself a Christian should be considered Christian to one degree or another. I don't see Christianity as being an all or nothing thing. Obviously, I consider that the whole Truth of Christianity is found in Orthodoxy and nowhere else, but I would never say that a heterodox Christian is, in fact non-Christian. They may be very close to or quite far from the Truth and still be Christian. If we were talking about where the Church was my answer would be more black and white, however (as I'm sure you're aware), but I have no doubt that there are many Christians, both good and bad, outside of the Church.

1. A Christian must look to Jesus Christ for salvation and worship Him as God’s Only Begotten Son.

Well, I would agree with this one and I think almost all Christians would at least agree with the first half of the statement - the Only Begotten Son part would presumably cause issues for those groups furthest from historical Christianity.

2. A Christian must accept certain core doctrines above and beyond a belief in Jesus Christ’s divinity and power to save. I’m thinking of such doctrines as “sola scriptura, sola fide, the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc.

Well I agree, but I don't think most of these are core doctrines, certainly not things like sola scriptura or sola fide, both of which are very recent doctrines indeed and rejected by the vast majority of Christians both present and past.

3. A Christian must pattern his or her life in accordance with Jesus’ example of loving one’s enemies and treating the entire human family with compassion and respect.

If you'd written should or ought to here I'd have agreed totally, but as everyone fails at this, some frequently some less so, I'd be seriously loathe to tell someone they weren't Christian because they didn't always behave appropriately.

4. A Christian must be “born again.” Once such a person becomes a Christian he is assured of salvation no matter what.

Absolutely not. Neither I nor any other Orthodox Christian believes that anyone can ever have assurance of salvation, and certainly not by a simple confession as is usually held to be effective by believers in OSAS. In actual fact, I don't think such believers really believe this either (or they haven't quite worked out the implications of said belief). If a confession of faith in Christ were enough to ensure salvation then all of us Christians would be automatically saved - but the same people who hold such beliefs usually approve of evangelising all us 'poor, damned Catholics' (whether Orthodox or Roman) as well as groups such as your own church.

Could we please discuss these four criteria, and any others you believe apply? I would also like to know where everyone’s definition comes from, be it from the Bible, the teachings of his or her own denomination, from a personal conviction, etc. And please, let’s not get into which denominations are or are not “the genuine article.” Let’s stick to a discussion of what a Christian is.

Obviously, your question is going to bring up a lot of opposing viewpoints and there's no way that we're going to come up with a definitive list of objective criteria. Personally, I judge the Christianity of a person's beliefs by how closely they correspond to the teachings of the (Orthodox) Church. I'm perfectly happy to admit this and don't believe there is a better way. I'm sure others do the same with reference to their own churches and, if they sincerely believe in them, this is entirely appropriate. I'd be interested to see just how many people here are willing to admit to using their church's teachings as the yardstick, though.

James

[michel]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I was going to make this a poll, but polls are so difficult. No matter how hard you try, you don’t provide enough options to suit everybody. But having just been told for the gazillionth time that I am not a Christian, I would like very much to hear where you draw the line and why. Personally, I don’t exclude anyone from the Christian family who sincerely considers himself to be a Christian. But a lot of other people do – and for a variety of reasons. The following criteria seem to be the most often mentioned:

1. A Christian must look to Jesus Christ for salvation and worship Him as God’s Only Begotten Son.

2. A Christian must accept certain core doctrines above and beyond a belief in Jesus Christ’s divinity and power to save. I’m thinking of such doctrines as “sola scriptura, sola fide, the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc.

3. A Christian must pattern his or her life in accordance with Jesus’ example of loving one’s enemies and treating the entire human family with compassion and respect.

4. A Christian must be “born again.” Once such a person becomes a Christian he is assured of salvation no matter what.

Could we please discuss these four criteria, and any others you believe apply? I would also like to know where everyone’s definition comes from, be it from the Bible, the teachings of his or her own denomination, from a personal conviction, etc. And please, let’s not get into which denominations are or are not “the genuine article.” Let’s stick to a discussion of what a Christian is.

As a 'new boy', I see

1.definitely.

2.Personally, I am happy with "the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc..........."

3. As James said, I would prefer 'must make every effort to attempt to'

4. I do not agree.

like I said, I am a 'New Boy to most of this, and realize that there are still inner conflicts I need to address.

[Scott1]

**peeks head in**

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Sola scriptura and sola fide are rejected by Catholics. ... Does this mean that they are exlcuded from Christianhood?

No, but appearantly it means we're excluded from christianity. Oh, the hypocrasy...
How can anyone who call a rc christian and at the same time call lds not christian because they have more books?

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

No, but appearantly it means we're excluded from christianity. Oh, the hypocrasy...

No one has the right or power to exclude you or anyone from Christianity... but that does not change my right as a person to define what Christian means to me. My Church has been fighting heresy since the beginning of the Christian Church, and have tried to teach against what we feel are doctrines aimed at the destruction of historical, orthodox Christianity. We teach against the Gnostics, Manichaeans, and Montanists; and in our own time Mormons, St. Simonians, phalansterians, and communists... I don't understand why any Mormon would not get this.

How can anyone who call a rc christian and at the same time call lds not christian because they have more books?

It has nothing to do with the amount of books.