Christian: What is a Christian? (Jesus Christ, reject, salvation, beliefs)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by michel

2.Personally, I am happy with "the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc..........."

Would you mind elaborating, Michel? If you are personally happy with certain doctrines, do you believe that all Christians must also be happy with those same doctrines. Can a person be a Christian and have differing viewpoints on these doctrines?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Scott1

No one has the right or power to exclude you or anyone from Christianity... but that does not change my right as a person to define what Christian means to me. My Church has been fighting heresy since the beginning of the Christian Church, and have tried to teach against what we feel are doctrines aimed at the destruction of historical, orthodox Christianity. We teach against the Gnostics, Manichaeans, and Montanists; and in our own time Mormons, St. Simonians, phalansterians, and communists... I don't understand why any Mormon would not get this.
It has nothing to do with the amount of books.

Mormons and communists, huh? Both seeking to undermine Christianity. What about Protestants? They reject many of your doctrines. Where do you draw the line? Isn't heresy heresy? Or is a certain amount of heresy permissible among Christians?

(By the way, I specifically requested, in my opening post, that this not turn into a discussion of who is and who is not a Christian. I wish you hadn't decided to turn this into a "Why Mormons Aren't Christians Thread.")

[Searcher of Light]

To me, on the most basic level a Christian is:

Looking at the english word "christian" nets the word "Christ" and the suffix -ian The definitions of each are:

Christ means "the annointed"

-ian
1) of, relating to, or resembling
2) one relating to, belonging to, or resembling.

Putting these terms together nets the following definitions:
Christian
1) one who resembles the Annointed
2) one who relates to the Annointed
3) one who belongs to the Annointed

Now, let us take things a step further. Annointed is the title that is given to Jesus in the gospels. It is often used interchangeably with His name as well and thus we get:
1) one who resembles Jesus
2) one who relates to Jesus
3) one who belongs to Jesus.

Ok, what does it mean to resemble, relate, and belong to Jesus? If we resemble or relate to something we are similar to that object or idea. What does it mean to be similar to Jesus? To answer this question we turn to the gospels to examine what kind a person He was. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all talk about His love. Jesus also gives us two commands:

"...you shall love the Lord your God with all your soul, with all of your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." Luke 10:27

Jesus sums up His own life. The gospels record that He loved God with all of His being and loved His neighbor. To relate and resemble Jesus we have to love. Adding this to our definition we get the last iteration:

1) one who loves God and his neighbor
2) one who relates to Jesus' ability to love
3) one who belongs to Jesus' love

There is much conflict and confusion with all of the different opinions about what a christian is. If this basic definition is followed than morality will become automatic. Jesus' love would be the highest measure of morality. Hopefully, everyone will find my view of it on the most basic level and away from all the confusion and biases we all have.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I'm not quite sure I know what you mean when you say that "the Only Begotten Son part would cause issues for some." Could you explain what you believe these "issues" to be?

All I meant was that some Christians, JWs for instance, would not agree that Christ was the Only Begotten Son of God. Of course, such people are about as far as you can get from historical Christianity and so would be on the opposite end of the spectrum from Orthodoxy, believing as they do in the ancient hersey of Arianism condemned at Nicea. Other such groups would include Oneness Pentecostals, who are Sabellians, and others who follow, for instance, Adoptionalist theology. I'm not really sure about the Christological beliefs of the LDS so couldn't comment on where you would fit in on this issue.

Unless I am mistaken, roughly one half of the world's 2 billion Christians are Roman Catholic. I don't know how many more are Eastern Orthodox. (You could probably help me out on this.) One way or the other, though, pretty close to half of those who consider themselves to be Christians are Protestants, and the vast majority of them do believe in sola scriptura. Slightly fewer believe in sola fide. But I have heard many of them say, as I'm sure you have, that Roman Catholics are not Christians -- at least in part because Roman Catholics reject these two doctrines. Presumably these same conservative Protestants would also say that Orthodox Christians aren't "the real thing" either.

There are about 100-150 million Orthodox Christians (I can't remember the exact figure, but it's certainly over 100 million as there are about 80 million Russians and 20 million Romanians, the two largest local churches). There are also a significant number of Oriental Orthodox, in Egypt, Ethiopia, India and the middle east who also reject these Protestant doctrines. Given that everybody prior to the Reformation would have been either Roman Catholic, Orthodox or Eastern Orthodox I think it's fair to say that the majority of current, and the overwhelming majority historically, of Christians would reject them. If modern Protestant groups are to deny our Christianity on the basis of our rejection of sola scriptura or sola fide, then, they would likewise be denying the Christianity of every single Christian prior to the 16th century. You are right, though, that they do attempt this sort of thing with adherents of all three churches I mentioned above.

I agree, although I personally do believe in being "born again" in an entirely different sense. When I use that phrase, I'm not talking about instant, irreversible salvation (which doctrine I totally reject). I'm talking about a sincere change of heart, a deep-down rejoicing in Christ's grace and a faith in the power of the Atonement.

I pretty much agree with you on this but I would never use the term born again simply because of all the Protestant baggage that goes with it. For me the equivalent would be baptism and this is the beginning, not the end, of our journey towards salvation.

Hmmm... I'm a little bit confused at how this fits in with your first paragraph. You almost seem to contradict yourself here. Would you mind clarifiying what you mean? And thanks for taking the time to respond.

I'm not sure how that's confusing or contradictory, but I'll try and clarify. I wouldn't deny the name Christian to anybody who sincerely tries to follow Christ no matter how far off base their theology is but, like I said, I see this as a continuum spanning from Orthodoxy on the one end to out right heresy on the other. What I meant by using the Orthodox Church as the yardstick was that I judge the degree of Truth in a Christian group's teachings by how closely they conform to Orthodoxy. As I said, I'm sure most Christians would do similar. Hope that helps.

James

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Mormons and communists, huh? Both seeking to undermine Christianity. What about Protestants? They reject many of your doctrines. Where do you draw the line? Isn't heresy heresy? Or is a certain amount of heresy permissible among Christians?

(By the way, I specifically requested, in my opening post, that this not turn into a discussion of who is and who is not a Christian. I wish you hadn't decided to turn this into a "Why Mormons Aren't Christians Thread.")

The funny thing about this argument is that I've seen that mormons and catholics have the most in common. I have more in comman with a catholic than with a baptist, for example.

[fromthe heart]

Christians: First called as such in Antioch...the first Christians WERE the disciples. see Acts 11:26

There is a different way to look at it in Christian behavior...God said you will know them by their works.(This is of course after they were repenting and put away their sin and wanted to walk in the path of Jesus Christ and were baptised as John the Baptist did when he baptised Jesus)...But to know a Christian is in fact a Christian is God's job...but for us to reccognize another Christian is to look at their behavior see Romans 12:3-21...Pauls letter to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians deals with Christian conduct. Paul laid it all out on the table as for believers in what they were to do and not do.

Christians once born again they are required to be baptised and in doing so recieve the Holy Spirit to dwell within them and in doing so are joined with all other Christians into the One Body...which is in Christ...therefore Christians are Christ like. (Thus the term CHRISTians)

None of this can happen through good works..good works doesn't count for a hill of beans unless you have been born again and your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life.

A lot of folks who have a problem with drinking and have gone through the 12 steps to becoming free of their demon should get part of the concept that to become a REAL Christian you must first take the proper steps:
#1 Ask Jesus for forgivness of your sins and ask Him to come into your heart and make you His own.
#2 Be baptised in the name of the Father; Son; and Holy Ghost
#3 walk in your life in respects to how a Christian should behave as stated above.

No one person will ever walk totally sinless...the only one to ever do that was Jesus Christ and that is why He was the only one to ever walk the face of the earth pure enough to become the sin sacrifice for all humankind on this earth.

If you look II Corinthians 5:17 Once you are a believer you have become a new creature...after which your works become a thing guided by the Holy Ghost and you do not wish to sin against God...when you do you are guilted inside and wish to make amends and ask forgivness of these deeds. One day you will stand before God in judgement of the good OR bad you have done I Corinthians 5:10...if you are not in fact a Christian at this point you will hear "Depart from Me; I never knew you". AT this point you WILL suffer the Eternal Lake of Fire...it says eternal for one reason...it's for eternity...you can not pick and choose with life what parts of the Bible you want to believe...if you believe in one part can you justify saying the Eternal Lake of fire should NOT be believed....Christians know and they DO NOT want a single living soul to ever go to that awful place...to look inside your self and say there is no place...you must reread the written Word of God...for it indeed exsists.

You can't judge who is a Christian by just how they may appear...it's all what is in their hearts that shows through to signal someone to 'believe' this person may be a Christian.

So...What is indeed a Christian???!!! It's not whether you are of a certian church or a certian walk...it is within your heart and you will know...if you have doubt perhaps you are not ...only You can say who you are!

Respectfully... I am a Christian,

[CaptainXeroid]

What is a Christian?

In my eyes, anyone who believes that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and was sent to die on the cross for the sins of Mankind, and who seeks to live as Christ taught us, is a Christian. I try to look past the man-made divisions among us.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

What about Protestants? They reject many of your doctrines. Where do you draw the line? Isn't heresy heresy? Or is a certain amount of heresy permissible among Christians?

Protestantism is heresy.... I don't know why this is so troubling for you... you believe us to be members of an Apostate Church--- but when I say it, it is somehow "wrong".

I wish you hadn't decided to turn this into a "Why Mormons Aren't Christians Thread.")

I am not a Moderator... YOU ARE. I can't "turn" a thread into anything... you decided to focus on a one part of a ON TOPIC comment I made and decided you needed to take the thread OFF TOPIC and tell me I can't define a Christian as I see fit. Do I have to call Muslims "Christians" now too, so as not to offend? Atheists? You just let me know what I'm allowed to say on this forum and we'll go from there, deal?