Christian: Mary, Mother of God (Jesus Christ, Earth, gospel, grace)

[writer]

110 Thank you for having responded
you're welcome

the last latter you sounded a little uncharitable and attacking.
i'pologize if u feel so.
If u permit me to ask: How so?

open our hearts to Jesus and ask him to give us true Charity.
Amen

I will pray with you and for you as well as for myself.
Thank you. I'll too

I really do appreciate you as a fellow Brother in Christ.
Likewise. This transcends, and transcends practically, all our differences

God can and does physically “assume” other peoples bodies and souls into heaven Like Elijah (2 Kings 2:1-13) , Moses(Jude 9), and Enoch(Gen 5:24) before the final resurrection of the Body, as we also call that the final judgement.
To the contrary: the final resurrection of believers' bodies is not "the final judgment" of Rv 20. Believers and unbelievers r neither judged together, nor subject to the "same" judgment.
Additionally, this isn't Moses' nor Elijah's final death, resurrection, or assumption. Nor is Mary, nor would Mary be, for any reason one of these 3

early christians believed she was assumed by Christ body and soul into heaven
Mary certainly didn't. If yours is a blanket statement: that's also fable

you should have no problem seeing Mary to be a special case either.
since i'm limited to the apostles' teaching, that itself is my blessing. Not a problem.
Nor's Mary any reason to be raptured b4 others

The Christian Church has believed since the earliest times that Mary would be a special case and would not rot in the ground, but rather would have her body assumed into heaven.
The Christian church has not believed in the New Testament that Mary would be a special case and her corpse wouldn't disintegrate like all others or that she's been raptured

Especially since she carried the New covenant Jesus within her womb.
Since Christ as Spirit regenerates and renews His Body (Eph 5), merely touching Christ physically did not yet accomplish His purpose

biblical fulfillment and implicit hint of Mary’s assumption in (Psalm 132:8) Which says “Arise O Lord and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might”.
The ark of the covenant in and throughout the Bible signifies Christ. God's container. Numbers 10:35. Christ includes His Body, of which you and i r members as well as sister Mary. She's definitely not God's unique ark. Because that is Christ. And we're members of Him.
She, like all His believers, has been "raised up together with Him and seated together with Him in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, that He might display in the ages to come the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus" (Eph 2:6-7). But not physically yet

Catholics view this verse as polyvalent and referring to not only the original ark in the literal sense, but pointing beyond itself and talking about Mary in the spiritual(allegorical and anagogical senses of Scripture).
Psalm 132:8, like 68:1 and Num 10:35 (the source of the quote), speaks of Christ. Not Mary individually. Nor Mary singlely. Nor Mary apart from any or all other members of Christ.

Jesus and her typologically fulfill this verse in Psalms. Hence Jesus arose(at easter) and went up to his resting place(Heaven the ascension), him and the ark that carried him. The New Ark...is Mary.
Jesus' resting place is His Body. In His Father's house are many abodes. He's also resting physically in heaven. But Mary was on earth after His ascension (Ac 1:14). "These all continued steadfastly with one accord in prayer together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers [Mary's other sons]." She wasn't in heaven and still's not. Nor is Joseph. Nor is Paul. Nor is Karol Wojtyla

71 A good example of Polyvalent scripture besides Rev 12 is (Isaiah 7:14) which initially prophesied the birth of King Hezekiah . The gospel writer Matthew(Matt 1:23) also saw this scripture as being polyvalent and believed it to be addressing not only King Hezekiah but also the birth of Christ through Mary’s virginal womb.
Revelation 12 is not "polyvalent."
"Behold the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel (Which is translated God with us)" (Matthew 1:23) does not refer to Hezekiah. It refers to Mary as a virgin conceiving and delivering her firstborn, Emmanuel, God's Son, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold the damsel will conceive and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel," the source of Mt 1:23, addresses Isaiah's son, Maher-shalal-hash-baz (Isaiah 8:3), and, of course, the Messiah. God's Son Jesus Christ (Mt 1:23; Isa 9:6).
Isa 7:14 does not refer to Hezekiah. "And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. And Jehovah said to me, Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz, for before this boy knows how to call, Father, and, Mother, they will carry off the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria before the king of Assyria (Isa 8:3-4; please read 7:15-8:8). Isaiah's boy, Maher..., himself typifies Christ.
This is valid "polyvalence," where the first subject himself also represents the 2nd, or most important, fulfillment. Thus Isaiah's wife is also a representative of Mary, the mother of Jesus. Which is interesting too how later, before Christ, the Jewish Septuagint translated "damsel" by Isaiah as "virgin" in Greek.
But neitgher Christ nor Mary r addressed individually in Rv 12.

So scripture can have many levels of meaning and one of them for Rev 12 is clearly our Blessed Lady as the Fathers historically taught.
To the contrary: Methodius (260-312), overseer in Olympus and Patara in Lycia, later of Tyre in Phoenicia; and martyred at Chalcis in Greece probably; wrote in his The Banquet Of The Ten Virgins discourse 8, chapter 7: "The child of the woman in the Apocalypse not Christ, but the faithful...Long before the Apocalypse, the mystery of the Incarnation of the Word was fulfilled." This explicitly denies Mr A here's "polyvalence" of Rv 12. "She who brings forth...is, as we have explained, our mother the Church" (chapter 11).
Is Methodius one of "the Fathers" u refer to, dear Mr A?
Is Hippolytus (170-236; from Rome, Portus, and Lyons; also martyred)?
In his Treatise On Christ And Antichrist section (paragraph) 61 he wrote "By the 'woman then clothed with the sun,' he meant most manifestly the Church, endued with the Father's word, whose brightness is above the sun." Hipp never applied her to Mary, singleley. Hipp interpreted Rv 12's child as Christ. Spiritually. Not directly in Incarnation

In Rev 12 we see this “women” (clearly Mary as Jesus hints to ) give birth to a son(Jesus) who will crush Satan (the dragon).
Jesus doesn't hint that the woman in Rv 12 is Mary. He doesn't say that she is. In fact, He clearly indicates she is not. As Methodius pointed out, Christ's incarnation [and His crucifixion in which He crushed Satan] transpired long before Revelation, and John's not writing of the past in Rv 12.
I asked you previously and i believe u never answered, Mr A, if u or your organization teaches that the woman in Rv 12's Mary, then (please teach me): into which wilderness did Mary flee after Christ ascended, for 1260 days to be nourished (12:6)?
To the contrary of that: Acts 1:14 states that she was neither in heaven nor any wilderness. She was in Jerusalem with the disciples then the church in Jerusalem. "These all continued steadfastly with one accord in prayer together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers [her other sons]"

Hence Mary fulfills this Prophecy in Genesis and since Jesus is Considered the New Adam, then Mary is the New Eve as the early Fathers of the Church all Spoke of.
Of course Mary "fulfilled" the prophecy in Genesis 3:15. Christ was born of the woman. And Mary can be called a new Eve. But to call her, individually, THE new Eve is blasphemous and wrong and antiapostolic. Since Christ did not marry an individual, only. But His new Eve, the church, collectively. "For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh. This mystery is great, but I speak with regard to Christ and the church," Ephesians 5:31-32. Thanks

[athanasius]

Dear In Christ Mr Writer

Thank you for your response. I ask the Lord to bless this dialogue between you and me. May he grant us both peace and understanding. Its great to talk to you Mr Writer my brother. This dialgue may come in several post as I have alot of evidence to show so please be patient with me.

Speaking of the Blessed Virgin Mary You said:

“She's definitely not God's unique ark....Psalm 132:8, like 68:1 and Num 10:35 (the source of the quote), speaks of Christ. Not Mary individually. Nor Mary singlely. Nor Mary apart from any or all other members of Christ.

My answer:
Dear Brother writer I and the Catholic church must humbly disagree with you over this. Sacred Scripture and Sacred tradition make it very plain and clear †hat Mary is indeed the New Ark of God’s covenant. I shall once again demonstrate from the Gospel Writers Luke and John and the fathers of the Church how this is.


Biblically this is obvious. The old Ark carried 3 things. The manna, the rod of Aaron. and the Word of God or ten words(Ten commandments). Jesus is the Word of God incarnate(Jn 1:1), the New Manna(Jn 6:48-49), and Jesus rules with the Rod of Iron (rev 12:5). Naturally Mary carried Jesus in her womb for 9 months. Mary would be the ark of the new covenant.

The Gospel Writer Luke shows us how Mary is a fulfillment of the Old testament ark:
For example Luke Makes direct parallels between Mary and the ark in his Gospel.

Compare 2 Sam 6 to Luke 1

David arose and went to Judah(2 Sam 6:2)

Mary arose and went to the hill country Judah(Lk 1:39)*

How can the Ark of the Lord come to me(2 sam 6:9)

Why is this Granted me that the Mother of my Lord should come to me(LK 1:43almost verbatim language)

The ARK remained on the hill country for 3 months(2 Sam 6:11)

Mary stays 3 months with Elisabeth (LK 1:56)

David rejoices (2 Sam 6 :12)

Mary’s Spirit rejoices (Lk 1:47)

leaping and dancing(2 Sam 6:16)

The babe leaps in Elisabeth's womb(Lk 1:41)

The Spirit of God would overshadow and rest on the ark(Ex 40:34)

The Holy Spirit of God would come upon Mary and overshadow her(Lk 1:35)

Clearly and unambiguously we see the Gospel writer Luke himself drwing direct parallels comparing Mary to the ark of the covenant and using similar language to reflect it. Luke is showing us she is the new ark. This is why many Bible scholar and fathers of the Church had no problem with calling he “Ark of the Covenant”, she clearly filled that role.

In fact this is why we find such titles for Mary such as “Ark Gilded by the Holy Ghost” in the early Christian Akathist hymns in the 5th century. We also see the Gospel writer John clearly show her as the new Ark. Consider also this:

“John explicitly shows Mary to be the new ark in Revelation. In Rev 11:19 we see the Ark of God’’s covenant appear. Who was this Ark?

The next verse tell us it was Mary(Rev 12:1). Remember when the scriptures were written there were no chapters and verses. This would have read immediately in context. Thus showing Mary to be the new Ark. Mr writer wrongly thinks that Mary’s arkness was just temporary for 9 months.

Even though Mary did have Jesus after 9 months, She was still considered the new ark. Remember Mary is depicted as the New ark in the book of Revelation which shows the future of the heavenly liturgy. She is even in the future in heaven still considered the ark. This is why the Fathers of the church called her the new ark.

Mr writer the next post I will reveal how hte early fathers of rthe Church didi teach that Mary was the ark of the covenant and assumed into heaven. I will also show how the Father taught that both Mary and the church were the women of revelation 12.

Peace be with you always and God bless you my Brother

[athanasius]

Mr writer you denied that Mary is the one being discussed in Psalm 132:8, which states:

“Go up to they resting place O Lord thou and the Ark of they might.”

But The Fathers saw Mary as fulfilling this passage and they believed she was the New ark being assumed into heaven. For example:

St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 213-c. 270)
“Let us chant the melody which has been taught us by the inspired harp of David, and say, “Arise, O Lord, into Thy rest; Thou, and the Ark of Thy sanctuary.” For the holy Virgin is in truth an Ark, wrought with gold both within and without, that has received the whole treasury of the sanctuary. (Orat. in Deip. Annunciat. Int. Opp. S. Greg. Thaumaturg) (Blessed Virgin, p. 89).
1

St. Ephrem (c. 306-373)
“With the rib that was drawn out of Adam, the wicked one drew out the heart of Adam. There arose from the rib [i.e., Mary], a hidden power which cut off Satan as Dagon. For in that ark [Mary again], a book was hidden that cried and proclaimed the Conqueror. There was then a mystery revealed, in that Dagon was brought low in his own place of refuge. The accomplishment came after the type, in that the wicked one was brought low wherein he trusted....Fulfilled was the mystery. Blessed is He who by the true Lamb

Chrysippus
“An ark truly royal, an ark most precious is the ever-Virgin Mother of God, an ark which received the treasure of entire sanctification (Chrysippus, Orat. de laudib. Deip. (Blessed Virgin, p. 74).

St. Ambrose (c. 339-397)
“The prophet David danced before the Ark. Now what else should we say the Ark was but holy Mary? The Ark bore within it the tables of the Testament, but Mary bore the Heir of the same Testament itself. The former contained in it the Law, the latter the Gospel. The one had the voice of God, the other His Word. The Ark, indeed, was radiant within and without with the glitter of gold, but holy Mary shone within and without with the splendor of virginity. The one was adorned with earthly gold, the other with heavenly” (Serm. xlii. 6, Int. Opp., S. Ambrosii) (Blessed Virgin, p. 77).

St. Athanasius (c. 296-373)
“Be mindful of us, most holy virgin, who after childbirth didst remain virgin; and grant to us for these small words great gifts from the riches of they graces, O thou full of grace. Accept them as though they were true and adequate praises in they honor; and if there is in them any virtue and any praise, we offer them as a hymn from ourselves and from all creatures to thee, full of grace, Lady, Queen, Mistress, Mother of God, and Ark of sanctification” (Orat. In Deip. Annuntiat, nn. 13, 14. Int. Opp. S. Athanasii) (Blessed Virgin, p. 80).

St. Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296-373; the main defender of the Trinity and the deity of Christ against the 2nd century Arian heretics.)
“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O (Ark of the) Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which Divinity resides.” Homily of the Papyrus of Turin.

Hesychius (lived c. 300)
“The ark is without doubt the Virgin Mother of God. For if Thou art the gem, with reason is she the (Hesychius, Orat. De Virginis laudib. Biblioth. PP. Græco-Lat. Tom. ii. p. 423) (Blessed Virgin, p. 89).

St. Methodius (815-885)
verily, is the mystery connected with thee, O Mother Virgin, thou spiritual throne, glorified and made worthy of God. . . . And the lintels of the doors, says the prophet, were raised at the voice of them that cried. By which is signified the veil of the temple overshadowing before the ark of the Covenant which typified thee.... For if to the ark, which was the image and type of thy sanctity, such honor was paid by God, that to no one but to the priestly order was the access to it open, or ingress allowed to behold it-the veil separating it off, and keeping the vestibule as that of a queen—how great, and what sort of veneration is due to thee from us, who are of all the least, to thee who art indeed a Queen ; to thee who art in truth the living Ark of God (St. Methodius, Orat. de Simeone et Anna ii. Patr. Graec. Tom. 18, p. 332. (Blessed Virgin, p. 153).

St. Jerome (c. 345-420)
“Behold one in truth, the handmaid of the Lord. Holy she is, in whom is no guile, all simplicity....The spouse of Christ is the ark of the covenant, within and without overlaid with gold, a keeper of the law of the Lord. As in the ark there was nothing but the tables of the Testament, so too in thee no one from outside should be thought of. Over this propitiatory, as though upon the Cherubim, the Lord is pleased to sit....The Apostle thus defines a virgin, that she should be holy in body and in spirit... (Epist. Xxii., Ad Eustoch. Nn. 18, 19, 21, 24) (Blessed Virgin, p. 216).
Now consider the truth of the Assumption as believed by the early Church;

St Epipahnius (377 Panarion against all hersesies)

“How will holy Mary Not possess the kingdom of heaven with her flesh, since she was not unchaste, nor dissolute,....she never did anything wrong as for as fleshly actions are concerned but remained stainless(Immaculate)”

St Gregory of tours;
“[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones..."
Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles,1:4(inter A.D. 575-593),in JUR,III:306

As the most glorious Mother of Christ,our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him."
(Modestus of Jerusalem,Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae(PG 86-II,3306),(ante A.D. 634) from Munificentis simus Deu)

Theoteknos
“It was fitting ... that the most holy-body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory ... should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God."
Theoteknos of Livias,Homily on the Assumption(ante A.D. 650),in THEO,57 

Germanus of Constantinople
"You are she who, as it is written, appears in beauty, and your virginal body is all holy, all chaste, entirely the dewlling place of God, so that it is henceforth completely exempt from dissoultion into dust. Though still human, it is changed into the heavenly life of incorruptibility, truly living and glorious, undamaged and sharing in perfect life."
Germanus of Constantinople,Sermon I(PG 98,346),(ante A.D. 733),from Munificentis simus Deus

St .John of Damascene,
"It was fitting that the she, who had kept her virginity intact in childbirth, should keep her own body free from all corruption even after death. It was fitting that she, who had carried the Creator as a child at her breast, should dwell in the divine tabernacles. It was fitting that the spouse, whom the Father had taken to himself, should live in the divine mansions. It was fitting that she, who had seen her Son upon the cross and who had thereby received into her heart the sword of sorrow which she had escaped when giving birth to him, should look upon him as he sits with the Father, It was fitting that God's Mother should possess what belongs to her Son, and that she should be honored by every creature as the Mother and as the handmaid of God"
John of Damascene,Dormition of Mary(PG 96,741),(ante A.D. 749) from Munificentis simus Deus

St John Damascene
'St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.' "
John of Damascene,PG(96:1A.D. 747-751)

[A]n effable mystery all the more worthy of praise as the Virgin's Assumption is something unique among men."
Gallican Sacramentary, from Munificentis simus Deus

God, the King of the universe, has granted you favors that surpass nature. As he kept you virgin in childbirth, thus he kept your body incorrupt in the tomb and has glorified it by his divine act of transferring it from the tomb." Byzantine Liturgy, from Munificentis simus Deus

Timotheus of Jerusalem
"[T]he virgin is up to now immortal, as He who lived, translated her into the place of reception"
Timotheus of Jerusalem(6th-8th century),in OTT,208


St Ambrose believed that the women of rev 12 was polyvalent, both referring to the Church and to Mary. Speaking on this he said

St. Ambrose of Milan
“She(Mary) is a type of the church who is also married but remains immaculate(Exposito in Lucam 2, 7 A,D, 397)

St Ephrem also reached the same conclsuion fearing no contradiction

St Ephrem the syrian

The virgin Mary is a symbol of the Church.....we call the church by the Name Mary for she desevees a double name(Sermo ad Noct A.D. 370)

Many other Church fatehrs(such as St Augustine) alsop saw the Mary as a type of the church and viewed the women of revelation to be both Mary and the Church. Thus showiing that the fathers taught both Mary and the Church are being talked about in Rev 12. Mary was clearly the biblcial and typological fullfillment of the ark of the covenant.

[athanasius]

Dear In Christ Mr Writer,

again due to the way you treated me and my faith in my prior debates with you on the eucharist, I will not debate you anymore. I have already spoken to you about this on the other forum but wanted to let you know that I wil also apply this to this forum too. Please know that I will always pray for you and consider you my brother. God bless you always
Athansaius

[BM5]

I was born and raised in the Catholic Faith and lived through Vatican II just as a background to this discussion. Having thought carefully and looked into many things the Catholic Church is in error about the Blessed Virgin in many respects.

For starters how can you call Her the mother of God when God had no beginning ?
She is the mother of the flesh which God the Son took and absorbed into His Divine nature thus making Her the closest human being in relation to the Holy Trinity. She is the daughter of God the Father, the mother of the flesh of God the Son and spiuse of the God the Holy Ghost.

Full of grace is certainly descriptive of someone who was concieved with sin as per Her announcement at the apparitions at Lourdes.

The understanding of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the design of God for our salvation is paramount. She is the path He took to come to us and if we want to follow His example then it seems an obvious thing to take the same path to Him.

The Ave I use for the Rosary is: Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the
fruit of thy womb.

Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
I reject the repeated use of Our Lords' sacred name and that of Our Blessed Mother to avoid familiarity.

[writer]

how can you call Her the mother of God when God had no beginning ?
Cuz God w/o beginnin or end became flesh
Micah 5:2; Heb 7:3; Jn 1:1, 14; 8:58; Rv 1:5-8; 22:12-13; Dan 7:13, 22; Zech 14:3-4, 9; Ac 1:11-12; Isa 7:14-9:7; Mt 1:23; Lk 1:32-35

She is the mother of the flesh which God the Son took and absorbed into His Divine nature thus making Her the closest human being in relation to the Holy Trinity.
To the contrary: the closest r His members of His Body who fully contain Him
1 Cor 12:12-13, 27; 2 Cor 4:7; Rm 8:6; Mt 5:3; 25:2-4; Eph 3:14-17; 6:24; Philip 3:8-15; Gal 4:19

She is the daughter of God the Father,
So too, equally, r all female believers into the Son of God
2 Cor 6:18; Isa 43:6

the mother of the flesh of God the Son
uniquely
Mt 1:23; Lk 1:27-38, 41-49

and spouse of the God the Holy Ghost.
So too, equally, r all believers into the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ
2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:32; Jn 3:29; Cor 3:17; Jn 7:37-39; 20:22; Rv 22:17

She is the path He took to come to us and if we want to follow His example then it seems an obvious thing to take the same path to Him.
To the contrary: the Son of God said "I am the way, the reality, and the life"
Jn 14:6. For there's one God and one Mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus
1 Tim 2:5. Who's approachable, and available, directly by faith
Jn 3:15; 6:35-37; 20:31; Rm 3:24-25; Heb 11:1, 6; Rm 10:12; Jn 4:10, 24; Lk 18:13-14

Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the
fruit of thy womb.
it's good to pray His word
Eph 6:17; Heb 4:12

I reject the repeated use of Our Lords' sacred name to avoid familiarity.
i'd say His name a thousand times a day. Since everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. And familiarity w/ Him = salvation. "That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death. This's eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Him who You've sent, Jesus Christ. For all of them'll know Me, from the little one among them even to the great one among them, declares Jehovah, for I'll forgive their inequity, and their sin I'll remember no more"
Ac 2:21; Rm 10:9-13; Gen 4:26; Psa 116:12-13; Philip 3:8-10; Jn 17:3; Jer 31:34; 1 Jn 5:20. After all, the Triune God, He's our husband
Isa 54:5; Jn 1:1-4; Rm 7:4; 8:10, 6, 11, 23; Rv 22:17; 21:2; 19:7-9; Jn 3:29; Rv 2:4; Eph 6:24.
Thanx

[SB Habakuk]

Mary is an elect being -whose election was sure before the foundations of the earth-

In being elect - she was found to be VIRGIN- she reciprocated the First virginal being in producing without help a son
She is the husband of herself

[rocka21]

a few questions.

how many times did Paul mention her in his letter to the churches?

how many times was mary mentioned after acts 1? ( she was in the upper room filled with the holy ghost speaking with other tounges.)

how are you sure revelations queen is talking about Mary?

[sojourner]

Personally, I find that many RC's ascribe too much to Mary, and that many Protestants dismiss too much.

I ascribe worth to her as the mother of God and the ark or the New Covenant, in that she was faithful to God and bore Jesus. But the immaculate conception and bodily assumption? That's a stretch for me.

[writer]

112 David arose and went to Judah(2 Sam 6:2) Mary arose and went to the hill country Judah(Lk 1:39)
Lotsa people arose and went to the hill country of Judah

How can the Ark of the Lord come to me(2 sam 6:9) Why is this Granted me that the Mother of my Lord should come to me(LK 1:43almost verbatim language)
The kind thoughtful poster misrepresents 2 Sam 6:9.
David was afraid of Jehovah that day; and he said, How shall the Ark of Jehovah come to me?
Becuz
Uzzah reached out for the Ark of God and took hold of it; for the oxen had stumbled. And the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the Ark of God. And David was angry, 6:6-8

The ARK remained on the hill country f