The Christian Canon (Latter-Day Saints, reject, crucifixion, tradition, beliefs)

[Katzpur]

When do you think the canon was closed? Was it unofficially closed prior to being officially closed?

What does that statement really mean to you? In what respect is it significant?

How do you see a closed canon and continued communication from the Holy Ghost as both being accurate beliefs?

Why do you believe the canon was closed? Who closed it and by what authority?

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

When do you think the canon was closed?

Which one?

How do you see a closed canon and continued communication from the Holy Ghost as both being accurate beliefs?

God communicates/has communicated to us in many ways... written Scripture is only one form of that communication... public revelation may have ended, but that does not mean the Spirit fell silent.

Why do you believe the canon was closed? Who closed it and by what authority?

You'll have to be more specific... whose canon?

[michel]

Hi Scott; I think Katzpur refers to this:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


The Biblical canon is an exclusive list of books written during the formative period of the Jewish or Christian faiths; the leaders of these communities believed these books to be inspired by God or to express the authoritative history of the relationship between God and his people (although there may have been secondary considerations as well).

There are differences between Christians and Jews, as well as between different Christian traditions, over which books meet the standards for canonization. The different criteria for, and the process of, canonization for each community dictates what members of that community consider to be "the Bible."

At this time, all of the below canons are considered to be "closed"; that is, most adherents of the various groups do not think that additional books can be added to the Bible. By contrast, an "open" canon would be a list of books which is considered to be open to additional books, should they meet the other criteria. Each of the canons described below was considered open for a time before being closed. Generally, the closure of the canon reflects a belief from the faith community that the formative period of the religion has ended, and that texts from that period can be collected into an authoritative body of work. Certain Christian churches (such as the Latter-day Saints) which accept the Bible as part of their formally adopted sacred literature may also include other works in the totality of their canon, but they generally do not consider those other works to be part of the Bible. See Sacred text for examples.

The relationship between the closing of the canon and beliefs about the nature of revelation may be subject to different interpretations. Some believe that the closing of the canon signals the end of a period of divine revelation; others believe that revelation continues even after the canon is closed, either through individuals or through the leadership of a divinely sanctioned religious institution. Among those who believe that revelation continues after the canon is closed, there is further debate about what kinds of revelation is possible, and whether the revelation can add to established theology.

[Scott1]

Thank you my friend... but that does not help... I know what a Canon is, but which canon Katzpur is talking about still is unresolved.

The Roman Catholic Canon
The Ethiopian Canon
The Oriental Orthodox Canon
The Eastern Orthodox Canon
The Protestant Canon
The LDS Canon
etc etc....

Which one?

[michel]

Beg pardon

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Scott1

Thank you my friend... but that does not help... I know what a Canon is, but which canon Katzpur is talking about still is unresolved.

The Roman Catholic Canon
The Ethiopian Canon
The Oriental Orthodox Canon
The Eastern Orthodox Canon
The Protestant Canon
The LDS Canon
etc etc....

Which one?

Don't be difficult, Scott! Okay... I don't know.

I guess the Roman Catholic Canon. Let's scratch off the Ethiopian Canon and the Oriental Orthodox Canon off the list. I sort of thought that the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church split long after "the" canon was officially closed. And I am relatively certain that, while the Protestants removed the Apocrypha from the Bible, they haven't added anything. I think I am right in assuming that they believe the canon to have been closed back when the Catholic Church said it was.

I hadn't read the material from wikepedia.com when I posted this question, but Michel's right in assuming I was thinking along those lines. I am wondering when Christians believe that God discontinued speaking to His Church in an official way. I know that there was a long period of time when the Bible as we know it today did not yet exist as a single volume of inspired writings. God obviously revealed Revelation to John the Beloved after Christ's crucifixion, and it's part of the canon today. Other writings were considered and rejected when today's canon was established.

I believe there was something called the Montanist controversy. I've been reading a little bit about it. If you know about it, it will probably clarify the questions I'm asking. If you don't, I can fill you in. Anyway, I believe this was in the third century.

I purposely didn't ask any more pointed questions than I did because I wanted to see how people believed and I didn't want my questions to make anyone feel as if their opinions wouldn't fit in to the discussion.

I hope you have more to say now.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I guess the Roman Catholic Canon.

Okey dokey.

And I am relatively certain that, while the Protestants removed the Apocrypha from the Bible, they haven't added anything. I think I am right in assuming that they believe the canon to have been closed back when the Catholic Church said it was.

I guess we view what "closed" means differently.... to me it implies that something is completed.... when Protestants removed books from the Canon, it showed they most certainly felt they had the power to "define" what was God's word and what was not... a task impossible without divine revelation or they would have to admit they removed books out of the bible just because "they felt like it"... see my point?

I believe there was something called the Montanist controversy. I've been reading a little bit about it. If you know about it, it will probably clarify the questions I'm asking. If you don't, I can fill you in. Anyway, I believe this was in the third century.

It was much earlier than that... it was finished (defeated) by about the year 400.

OK... on to your original questions:

When do you think the canon was closed?

"If any one shall say, or shall believe, that other Scriptures, besides those which the Catholic Church has received, are to be esteemed of authority, or to be venerated, let him be anathema." Council of Toledo, Canon 12 (A.D. 400).

Was it unofficially closed prior to being officially closed?

Yes and no... it had to be defined for it to be "closed"... "closed" is an action which implies an "actor", in this case, the Catholic Church who closed it..... but I would argue that the Holy Spirit was guiding the Church and the Canon was already there, waiting for the Church to "figure it out"...

What does that statement really mean to you? In what respect is it significant?

It shows the power entrusted to the Church and the Apostles --- to guard the deposit of faith for all time.