Christian: Jesus' nature questioned? (Jesus Christ, ritual, Creator, Earth, exodus)

[Steve]

Somthing i often wonder about is how some Christians who also belive in evolution reconcile their belifes, i dont want this to be an evolution vs creation thread. Instead id rather discuss "what would Jesus Do" as he is the Creator to Christians. Hence the same faith debate section.

quotes taken from this thread- Science vs Religion

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Science deals with the physical. It makes not judgements about the spiritual.
Religion deals with the spiritual. It makes no judgements about the physical.

What does that statement really mean to you?
Do you belive Jesus for example was physical, or that his miracles of healing, raising people from the Dead, turning water to wine etc were real events that physically took place? If our religion is Real than it is also explicitly deals with the physical realm aswell. Do you regard the historic battles between nations described in the Bible to have really taken place, or the slavery that the Jewish people experienced while in Egypt, what about the Exodus? All of these things happened in the Physical realm, you cannot seperate religion from the physical realm if the religion is describing things as an explicitly physically event.

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Science endavors to describe God's tools and his creation. It never seeks to replace God.

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Some would erroneously deprive God of some of his more subtle tools, such as evolution and plate tektonics. Usually, these are either misguided atheists, or misguided theists trying to prove what is spiritual using the physical. It's a fool's errand at best.

More subtle tools ah? Do you belive that Jesus created the world?

For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Colossians 1:16

Hebrews 1:5-10
For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son; ..... v10 He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

With what you know about Jesus, his ability to instantly heal the blind, raise people from the dead, instantly cure diseases etc combined with his love for mankind such that he would be flogged and crucified for their sake - Do you really belive he would use evolution as one of his "subtle tools"? Do you belive that he would use death, diseases, survival of the fittest etc to create a world described by God as "very Good"? Their are fossils that show diseases etc that evolutionists claim were laid down befor mankind existed.
Do you belive that although Jesus was able to instantly heal, raise the dead etc - he instead choose to use diseases and death to bring about his creation?

The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 1 Corinthians 15:26
You may say this refers only to spiritual death but then i ask, why did Jesus have to physically die when he paid for our sins - to reconcile us to God, he took upon the curse that our sin brought upon all of Creation. Do you belive Jesus physically rose from the dead? was his body gone from the tomb, did he still bear the nail holes in his hands?
I cannot see how you can reconcile Jesus in the bible to the theory of evolution.

[Scott1]

Good questions Steve.

I can't speak for NetDoc, but I believe that God is the Creator of Heaven and Earth... this is a theological opinion that is the basis of my faith.

HOW God created the world ... either in a literal 6 days.... or by evolution... is a scientific matter than is beyond the realm of my theological studies.

To me, the Bible speaks but one word: CHRIST..... everything I need to know is summed up in the Life-death-and resurection of Jesus Christ..... the "how" of the creation of matter and the universe is not needed to help me live a life of discipleship with Christ.

Peace in Christ,
Scott

[Scuba Pete]

What we are really discussing here is not WHETHER God created the earth, but HOW God did it.

Does a baker not "create" his cake? He starts with the raw ingredients, mixes them in a bowl, bakes them at the proper temperature and walla, we have a cake. Could not God allow more than "one step" to create our earth? Or are we going to limit how we allow God to create things? After all, once saved, a disciple is not immediately "perfect" are they? No, their "evolution" continues until they are called home.

[michel]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

What we are really discussing here is not WHETHER God created the earth, but HOW God did it.

Does a baker not "create" his cake? He starts with the raw ingredients, mixes them in a bowl, bakes them at the proper temperature and walla, we have a cake. Could not God allow more than "one step" to create our earth? Or are we going to limit how we allow God to create things? After all, once saved, a disciple is not immediately "perfect" are they? No, their "evolution" continues until they are called home.

Great post NetDoc; I am delighted to see you back, even if you are obviously 'fishing' for compiments.

[Scuba Pete]

Thanks Michel,

It feels GREAT to be back in my "chair" and on the net!

[Victor]

Good post Netdoc.....Welcome back...

The Least
~Victor

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

What we are really discussing here is not WHETHER God created the earth, but HOW God did it.

Does a baker not "create" his cake? He starts with the raw ingredients, mixes them in a bowl, bakes them at the proper temperature and walla, we have a cake. Could not God allow more than "one step" to create our earth? Or are we going to limit how we allow God to create things? After all, once saved, a disciple is not immediately "perfect" are they? No, their "evolution" continues until they are called home.

Sounds like you're introducing a thread arguing against an ex nihilo creation, NetDoc. Since I'm pretty sure you wouldn't do that, I wonder if you had stopped to consider what you are suggesting. I thought the mainstream Christian community insisted that God created His cake without any ingredients.

[Scuba Pete]

Ah Katzpur,

That's like saying that a house built with tools is ex contractor. Why are you so intent on limiting God in the way he works? Is the Bible not inspired by God because he had men write it?

God never told us HOW he created all things... only that he did. We seem "hell bent" on protecting God's honor by limiting his options.