Christianity: Define Christian (Jesus Christ, reject, Earth, crucified, Kingdom)

[anders]

I like that, but it is so simple that it gets complicated.

What about a devout Sikh who believes in one God, works honestly and takes care of the needy, or all other people who live in a a way fully corresponding to Jesus' teachings, but perhaps even haven't heard of him? What about beliefs that Jesus didn't teach, but aren't contradictory to his teachings? One earthly reincarnation is taught by the Bible, Jesus at least speaks of another life in heaven, but what if you believe in several reincarnations/rebirths?

And do you mean that you don't have to believe in, for example, Jesus' virgin birth? Please correct me if I have overlooked something, but I think that is no teaching of Jesus, but of some evangelists, Paul and others.

[wilieha]

The statement I replied to was to define a Christian. That is what I answered. It is just that simple. We could talk for days on mans doctrine that has been added and accepted- right or wrong. Tradition does play a large part in the religion; as a matter of fact all religions. As to the virgin birth or even changing water into wine, Faith is Faith and does not require proof. Life is proof enough for me.
Wilieha

[anders]

I did not mention proof. Faith is Faith, OK, but faith in what? Do I read you correctly that you think that it is not necessary for a Christian to believe in Jesus' supernatural conception? In that case, you and the archbishop of the Church of Sweden agree on that point.

The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?

Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?

And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)

Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)

Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.

[wilieha]

Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 431




I did not mention proof. Faith is Faith, OK, but faith in what? Do I read you correctly that you think that it is not necessary for a Christian to believe in Jesus' supernatural conception? In that case, you and the archbishop of the Church of Sweden agree on that point.

The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?

Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?

And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)

Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)

Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.

[wilieha]

I did not mention proof. Faith is Faith, OK, but faith in what? Do I read you correctly that you think that it is not necessary for a Christian to believe in Jesus' supernatural conception? In that case, you and the archbishop of the Church of Sweden agree on that point.

No I did not say nor do I question the virgin birth, I have no Idea How you got that from my reply this AM.

The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?

I am very familiar with the Nicene creed, its history and its use. It is the earliest attempt to organize and standardize Christianity by the government of the day. In other words it is man made. The result of the council of Niece circa 327 CE.

Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?

A person; Christian or not may believe anything He/She wants. In my view, one of the chief mysteries of our Faith is how the comunion elements turn to the Body and Blood of Christ.

And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)

NO.

Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)

NO.

Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.

I think your mind is working overtime and is complicating a very simple Fact.

Wilieha

[Green Gaia]

Here is MY definition of a Christian: anyone who has a desire to follow the teachings of Jesus, and wants to call themself 'Christian' is a Christian.

[Ronald]

Originally Posted by Maize

Here is MY definition of a Christian: anyone who has a desire to follow the teachings of Jesus, and wants to call themself 'Christian' is a Christian.

If a Christian is as you define, "Desire to follow the teachings of Jesus."
Why do they not follow those teachings?
Did Jesus celebrate his birthday?
Did Jesus go to the Catholic/Universal (Christian) church?
Did he teach Sabbath and Law nailed to the cross?
Did he not teach commandment keeping?
What Holy Days did he keep and teach?
Did he ever say "Go and sin no more"?
Was there ever a sacrifice for intentional sin?
Would he not quote from Issiah 29:13?
Wouldn't this be taking (putting on) the/a name of the Lord in Vain?
Just thinking in print!??

[Green Gaia]

Ronald, I gave my definition of a Christian to me. I have no inclination to defend it, especially not in a discussion forum. You disagree with my definition, fine. Let's hear your definition.

[Ronald]

Christianity took the name. To me, it bears no resemblance to the source, Judism.
Paul says "Imitate me as I imitate Christ." Both, He and Jesus, were law keeping Jews. Paul says they should smell like Olives, but they bear no resemblance to an Olive Tree/Israel.
It is beyond my comprehension, They read the same Bible, written by Jews, for Jews. Coming out of the pipe is not Olive oil, a different substance. Go figure??

[Ceridwen018]

Nice definition, Ronald.

Personally, I agree with Maize. CHRISTianity is about following the teachings of Jesus. As for the other stuff added by organized religion, although perhaps unecessary, what harm does it do? 'Christian' is a pretty broad term as it is. You can have your purists who reject all the flowery ritual and you can have your everyday practitioner who recognizes holy days etc. Both of these, however, have Jesus in common.