Christian: Some passages about Jesus being God (Jesus Christ, Moses, Earth)

[Linus]

Here are some passages about the Christ's divinity I would like you all to consider. Please let me know what you think.

Matthew 1:22-23 (a reference to Isaiah 7:14)
Mark 2:5-7
John 8:58 (a reference to Exodus. 3:14)
John 10:33
John 20:28
2 Peter 1:1

Isaiah 9:6

And also, check these out.

Isaiah 40:3 compared to Matthew 3:3
Isaiah 42:8 compared to John 17:5
Isaiah 44:6 compared to Revelation 2:8
Psalm 102 compared to Hebrews 1:10-12

[Linus]

Anyone? I'd love to hear what you all think.

[Finnyhaha]

I umm can't debate on this one, as I'm not Christian, but you may want to fix your second link. Isaiah 6 ends with verse 13.

[Linus]

Don't worry about not debating. I'm looking for mostly Christian arguments anyway. But thanks for the pointer. I fixed the passage.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Linus

Here are some passages about the Christ's divinity I would like you all to consider. Please let me know what you think.

Matthew 1:22-23 (a reference to Isaiah 7:14)
Mark 2:5-7
John 8:58 (a reference to Exodus. 3:14)
John 10:33
John 20:28
2 Peter 1:1

Isaiah 9:6

And also, check these out.

Isaiah 40:3 compared to Matthew 3:3
Isaiah 42:8 compared to John 17:5
Isaiah 44:6 compared to Revelation 2:8
Psalm 102 compared to Hebrews 1:10-12

Hi, Linus.

Maybe the reason you haven't seen more responses is that people tend to be lazy. We don't want to have to look up all the scripture references you've given. Perhaps if you'd included the actual text, you'd have seen a better response.

Anyway, I did look up some (although not all) of them. My own belief is that Jesus is divine -- fully. I believe that He is the Only Begotten Son of God the Father. I just don't believe that He is the same person as the Father.

Kathryn

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Maybe the reason you haven't seen more responses is that people tend to be lazy. We don't want to have to look up all the scripture references you've given. Perhaps if you'd included the actual text, you'd have seen a better response.

Ok, here we go. Let's see if this gets a few more...

Mathew 1: 22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
A reference to Isaiah 7:14

Mark 2:5 And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." 6 But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
A reference to Exodus 3:14

John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

2 Peter 2:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Found an additional one:
Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Comparing the following sets of verses:

Isaiah 40:3 A voice is calling,
"Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness;
Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God.

compared to

Matthew 3:1 Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying,


2"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." 3For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said,
"THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
''MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!'"


Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.

compared to

John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

compared to

Revelation 2:8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this:

I won't post al of psalm 102 because that would make this post way too long, but I will post Hebrews 1: 10-12

10And,
"YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
12AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."

Maybe this will get them posting...

[No*s]

I, of course, fully fall into the "I believe Jesus is divine" . Still, I have to nitpick a couple. Don't compare Jn. 8.58 with Exodus. That's a bad idea. In Greek, Jesus declares prin avraam genesthai ego eimi. The "I am" is ego eimi. In this passage, the representation of God's name is ego eimi.

In Exodus, though, the Greek translation St. John would have used reads ego eimi o on. God's here is translated into Greek as o on, and that is what the apostle would have used had he referred to this passage. The formula works in English but not in Greek.

In Isaiah, though, ego eimi is frequently used to identify God, so there is grounds for understanding it that way in St. John, and Isaiah was a very important book to the early Christians. I don't have the references right off hand, because I'm not in my study, but if you change your references from Exodus to Isaiah, then you'll find your argument here a lot stronger. Personally, I take the verse as Jesus claiming to be God .

[Linus]

Originally Posted by No*s

if you change your references from Exodus to Isaiah, then you'll find your argument here a lot stronger.

To which passage in Isaiah are you refering exactly?

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Linus

To which passage in Isaiah are you refering exactly?

A good example I can get access to right off hand is Is. 41.4 (I didn't bring my references with me, so I checked a work I knew talked about it online. My apologies for that). It goes "Who did and made these things? He called it, the One who called it from the beginning. I am the first and the last. I AM."

As a note, this is my translation from the LXX. I avoided translating "did" literally so as to avoid being controversial, but the LXX has "energized" instead of "did."

[Linus]

Originally Posted by No*s

A good example I can get access to right off hand is Is. 41.4 (I didn't bring my references with me, so I checked a work I knew talked about it online. My apologies for that). It goes "Who did and made these things? He called it, the One who called it from the beginning. I am the first and the last. I AM."

As a note, this is my translation from the LXX. I avoided translating "did" literally so as to avoid being controversial, but the LXX has "energized" instead of "did."

Good points, thanks for the info. I wish I knew more Greek so I could try and understand these things a little better. I have a dictionary, but it's not exactly the same. THanks again.