Christian: Some passages about Jesus being God (Jesus Christ, Moses, Earth)

[Scuba Pete]

I don't know that I will EVER fully understand how Jesus is God, man and the Son of God all at the same time. I am sure that God has it down perfectly. So I will continue to work on my Godly character since he has told me to do so (thorugh Peter) and let God be God, and Jesus be Jesus. For after all, he desires mercy and not sacrifice; cheerful obedience and not spiritual navel gazing.

It comes down to understanding Charis (grace) and that means we are becoming JUST LIKE GOD. Jesus was full of Grace, and now my mission is to grow in his grace, becoming like him in every way.

II Corinthians 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

[profet]

scott1 -
A point to being crucified? I guess a graphic reminder of the fact that we kill just about everything we can find is point enough for me. Doesn't matter whether a person is presenting us with a wonderful spiritual way of living or is attacking us, we'll find an excuse to kill 'im anyway.
Look... I know that 99.999% of Christians believe that Christ dying on the cross and rising again are the two seminal events that define the religion, but I am one of .001% that doesn't think it matters in the slightest.
Face it... being immune to death or having the power to overcome it is a HUMAN notion of divinity based on OUR fears and just about every god in history has had those powers. If you discard personal faith in one specific religion, you can see that there is nothing special about that power; In fact immortality was a presumed trait of any god in the time of Christ. The addition of the resurrection to Christ's story seems a blatant attempt to appeal to potential converts who lived with that presumption. It worked... but we killed 100,000 Iraqis in the last 2 years... are we a Christian nation like our presidents seems to imply?
What he said about how we should behave and how he behaved himself are far more important than whether he properly fulfilled the words of some raving luny Jewish prophet from a century before he was born or whether he said "How's it going ladies!" to the women at the tomb after he had supposedly died.
In other words... I reject the notion that to be a Christian one has to believe in the resurrection. IMO, to be a Christian, one has to follow Christ. Not because he is God or because he has power over our biggest fear... but because he was right.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by profet

I know that 99.999% of Christians believe that Christ dying on the cross and rising again are the two seminal events that define the religion, but I am one of .001% that doesn't think it matters in the slightest.

You make a good point, Profet. We need to follow Jesus because He lived as one should, set a perfect example for us, and preached the right message. But I think you are drastically (and that's an understatement) underestimating the imortance of the resurrection. And I think the Apostle Paul would agree with me there.

I Corinthians 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

[blueman]

Originally Posted by Mujahid Mohammed

So if Jesus is god who according to your scriptures was he praying to on the cross. Am I to understand from the statements mentioned above he was talking to himself

That's where you get into trouble, looking at it in a very secular fashion. Jesus was speaking to His Father from the cross. Although this is the subject of another thread, the God-head is three person (God The Father,God The Son and God The Holy Spirit). The reason why Jesus proclaimed "I and My Father are one" in John 10:30 is because the have the same power and attributes and this would also apply to the Holy Spirit. If you ever wanted to know the way God The Father would have reacted to a given situation, just look at the life of Jesus.

[profet]

I think you are drastically (and that's an understatement) underestimating the imortance of the resurrection. And I think the Apostle Paul would agree with me there.
I Corinthians 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

IMO, the part of the Bible that defines Christian beliefs begins at Matthew and ends at John. Before Matthew we are looking at Jewish history that can be used as background for analyses of Christs teachings, yet it is not Christ's teaching. After John we are looking at the history of the early church - followers spreading the teachings as they saw them and offering explanations to people who lived very differant lives than we do.
Why would I want to base my spiritual path on interpretations of Christ's teachings given to people who lived in city in an empire that no longer exists by people who were not Christ? I can go straight to the teachings that are being interpreted and make them relevant to me.
Also, Paul fails to define what a ressurrection is. I have felt what I believe to be Christ's presence before... but I felt it in the exact way Christ told us we could: Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
While discussing Christian teachings with others I definately felt the presence of a third independant spirit or idea rising in my mind that was only made palpable by the mingling of 4 other people's spiritual ideas. I could have read the Bible for 10 years and not have felt that presense.
That alternate idea (obviously) affected me quite a bit. So was this Chirst and is the ability to feel his presence even though he is dead what he meant by 'the ressurection' or does resurrection have to mean 'dead bodes rising and coming back to life' just because that makes us body oriented people feel more immortal.
Don't mean to be derogatory of your beliefs. As you can see I have issues with the Bible as literal history and as word of God .
IMO, If one can behave in the way Christ taught without believing in 'the resurrection' then it is not important or if one is free to define the resurrection as something other than ego-massaging immortality worship, then it can be useful.
Maybe I will find some more significance to it with further contemplation, but I have a lot of peacemaking, humility and loving my neighbor as myself to practice before I feel it neccessary to worry about that.

[michel]

Originally Posted by profet

IMO, the part of the Bible that defines Christian beliefs begins at Matthew and ends at John. Before Matthew we are looking at Jewish history that can be used as background for analyses of Christs teachings, yet it is not Christ's teaching. After John we are looking at the history of the early church - followers spreading the teachings as they saw them and offering explanations to people who lived very differant lives than we do.
Why would I want to base my spiritual path on interpretations of Christ's teachings given to people who lived in city in an empire that no longer exists by people who were not Christ? I can go straight to the teachings that are being interpreted and make them relevant to me.
Also, Paul fails to define what a ressurrection is. I have felt what I believe to be Christ's presence before... but I felt it in the exact way Christ told us we could: Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
While discussing Christian teachings with others I definately felt the presence of a third independant spirit or idea rising in my mind that was only made palpable by the mingling of 4 other people's spiritual ideas. I could have read the Bible for 10 years and not have felt that presense.
That alternate idea (obviously) affected me quite a bit. So was this Chirst and is the ability to feel his presence even though he is dead what he meant by 'the ressurection' or does resurrection have to mean 'dead bodes rising and coming back to life' just because that makes us body oriented people feel more immortal.
Don't mean to be derogatory of your beliefs. As you can see I have issues with the Bible as literal history and as word of God .
IMO, If one can behave in the way Christ taught without believing in 'the resurrection' then it is not important or if one is free to define the resurrection as something other than ego-massaging immortality worship, then it can be useful.
Maybe I will find some more significance to it with further contemplation, but I have a lot of peacemaking, humility and loving my neighbor as myself to practice before I feel it neccessary to worry about that.

What are your 'Issues'?

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by profet

I reject the notion that to be a Christian one has to believe in the resurrection. IMO, to be a Christian, one has to follow Christ. Not because he is God or because he has power over our biggest fear... but because he was right.

OK.... but WHY?

What was he "right" about?

What's the point of following Jesus over, say.... any other philosophy?

You just happen to like Christ's better than those?

Thanks in advance for answering... we haven't had a ".001%" Christian like yourself around to chat with before.... this has been a great education if your beliefs... bless you for sharing with us!

Peace.... from the other 99.999% of us ,
Scott

[michel]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Scott1 again.

[profet]

Originally Posted by Scott1

What was he "right" about? What's the point of following Jesus over, say.... any other philosophy?

I'm sure I could be a Buddhist if I came from a culture where that made sense to me or follow Sufi Islam if I was raised in a culture where that made sense to me. They have the same basic message as Christ and I know some people that follow each of them that live more like Christ than 90% of Christians. Those philosophies don't resonate with me though. I was born Catholic and did 12 years of Catholic school so it may be that I just had a 'Jesus neural pathway' burned into my way of thinking. Once I realized that is the only path I was going to understand though, I wanted to see what he taught and how he lived as opposed to the way organized religion presents his teachings and found no fault with his teachings at all. They make sense for a happy, peaceful life. The only thng that bothers me is that so many so-called-Christians don't care a whit about living like Christ and are more concerned with the endd of the world and judging other people.
(Both no nos according to Jesus.)

[profet]

Originally Posted by michel

What are your 'Issues'?

That the Bible isn't literal and is not the word of God