Christian: Some passages about Jesus being God (Jesus Christ, Moses, Earth)

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by Linus

Mark 2:5 And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." 6 But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?" ...

Jesus is saying that God forgives us before we even ask. It's up to us to accept forgiveness,and to realize that we are worthy.

Originally Posted by Linus

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
A reference to Exodus 3:14...

The bible also says that we were there from the beginning

Originally Posted by Linus

John 10:33

Originally Posted by Linus

The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

2 Peter 2:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Found an additional one:
Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Comparing the following sets of verses:

Isaiah 40:3 A voice is calling,
"Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness;
Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God.

compared to

Matthew 3:1 Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying,


2"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." 3For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said,
"THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
''MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!'"


Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.

compared to

John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

compared to

Revelation 2:8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this:

I won't post al of psalm 102 because that would make this post way too long, but I will post Hebrews 1: 10-12

10And,
"YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
12AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."

Maybe this will get them posting...

Most of these are not Jesus calling himself God, but others calling him God. And I will emphasize. We are all divine children of God. We were all there from the beginning. God is within all of us. Jesus taught us to see God within us, not to search outside, to someone else, but seek God within. And as for Jesus being God's only begotten son . . .

1. 1. Jacob is God's son and firstborn: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22.

   1. Solomon is God's son "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son": 2 Samuel 7:13-14.

   1. Ephraim is God's firstborn: "for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Jeremiah 31:9 (who is God's firstborn? Israel or Ephraim?).

   1. Adam is the son of God "Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38.

   1. Common people (you and me) are the sons of God: "Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12. "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15. "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: ... now are we the sons of God" 1 John 3:1-2. "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7. "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 2:1. "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 1:6. "when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men," Genesis 6:4. "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair" Genesis 6:2

[James the Persian]

Mujahid,

I assume that your family members are not (or at least not all) members of one of the Apostolic churches, as it sounds as though they are probably sola scripturalists. Not all Christians have the same sources of information to work with - Protestants eschew Holy Tradition whereas for us it is vitally important. Relying on Scripture alone does tend to cause the sorts of different interpretations you have noted.

I have three people trying to explain the same thing but yet somehow from the individual knowledge each has acquired from the same reference material you get three very different views on how it should be understood. What does God the one who is greater than Jesus according to his testimony say about the trinity wouldn't his proclamation on what he is be more valid. God says in Isiah that he is one so I am to take from that statement that he is one. Paul says The father ,the son and the holy ghost all of these are one. Jesus says the father is greater than I. You have 3 very different statements here. Not all can be right somebody is lying and who am I as a muslim or christian commanded to listen to.

I would have to say that there are no contradictions at all in the Scriptures you refer to. Firstly, the God of the OT is, from our point of view, the Holy Trinity, which is indeed One, though composed of three Hypostases. This is not a contradiction and is also what Paul is referring to when he says that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. It is also true that the Father is greater than Christ, in two ways. Firstly, the Father is the source of the other two Hypostases, begetting one and proceeding the other so, in this sense the Father is the greatest Hypostasis in the Godhead and secondly, Christ was speaking while Incarnated as Man. This is an important point because as Scripture tells us, God the Son voluntarily humbled Himself when he came into the world as Jesus Christ. Very many Christians, however, fail to distinguish between temporal and eternal attributes of God which, incidentally, is one cause of our disagreements with the Roman Catholics over their addition of the filioque clause to the Creed, which distorts the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Another reason for the differing interpretations of the Trinity you might come across is that the vast majority of Christians are simply not that theologically savvy. This is fine, for most people simple faith is more than enough - not everyone feels the urge to delve into the Mysteries of the faith the way I do.

James

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by IacobPersul

Christ was God the Son Incarnate as man. He was not God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. The One God is made up of all three (which we call Hypostases) who are all equally God but are not identical. God the Father is Unbegotten, God the Son is Eternally Begotten and the Holy Spirit Eternally proceeds from the Father. All three are God but they are not separate gods, merely separate Hypostases of the One.
James

I would agree with this analagy. Jesus is of God. He was completely connected to God his whole life. Aware of the connection, and did not seperate himself by sin.

However, he is not God Almighty. God said 'put no God's before me', he also said, do not make graven images of lesser Gods. I know we should honor the Son of God. We should recognize the light of God that shone so bright within him. But don't some go too far and say the Jesus IS GOD? Jesus taught us the the light of God shines within each of us, and we are not to hide it under a bushel, but let it shine.

There are many who take the few scriptures that refer to Jesus as being Godlike, and using to validate their beliefs, but why do they ignore the 81 times that Jesus himself says he is Son of Man? I do not think we should base our faith on specific portions of the bible, for each individual section is written by man, but on the whole bible, the whole bible, which is the word of God. Jesus is also 'the word', and we should also not base our faith of Jesus on just a few scriptures, but again on the whole.

My identity is not based on a few moments of my life, but the sum of the whole. I feel we should be seeking to find the light of God that shines in each individual. When I look at my children, I see God, and praise him. When I see two people in love, I see God, and I praise him. When I see evil in the world, I know the the light of God is being hidden beneath fear, hate, etc., but God resides there as well, and I praise him.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

There are many who take the few scriptures that refer to Jesus as being Godlike, and using to validate their beliefs, but why do they ignore the 81 times that Jesus himself says he is Son of Man? I do not think we should base our faith on specific portions of the bible, for each individual section is written by man, but on the whole bible, the whole bible, which is the word of God. Jesus is also 'the word', and we should also not base our faith of Jesus on just a few scriptures, but again on the whole.

The Scriptures are only one part of the basis for my beliefs and hence my belief in Christ is not based solely on them whether in part or taken as a whole. I also feel you are misunderstanding the phrase 'Son of Man' as this in no wise contradicts Christ's divinity, but you are entitled to your own beliefs however much I may disagree with them.

James

[Linus]

The phrase "Son of Man" is not a title that Jesus made up. Nor is it something that refers to his humanity alone. It is a reference to Daniel chapter 7 and refers to both His divinity and His humanity. I quote Paul E. Little from his book, Know Why You Believe:

The title Son of Man is one Jesus used to refer to himself, but always with some assertion of deity. In his words concerning his coming Jesus speaks of himself as the Son of Man come "to give his life a ransom for many."This is not a disclaimer of deity, by any means. Rather the title embraces both his deity and his coming as a part of the human race. His authority, miracles, treaching and character were traits true only of God.

[njcl]

jesus is the son of god,he is not god and neither claimed to be,also why did he say father why has thy deserted me on the cross?..or was he talking to himself??,you see preposterous,never the less i percieve christ as a god and when on earth was equal or thereabouts in power to his father

[profet]

As a Christian, I regard the Old Testament as semi-fictional drama with the exception of the 10 commandments which Jesus says are still in effect or when Jesus himself quotes from them. With regards to the gospel writings:

Mathew 1: 22 BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

Jesus' name was not Immanuel

Mark 2:6 But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"

The scribes said that, not Jesus

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

These quotes are no differant then Wayne Dyer saying "there is a universal source that has always existed and we can tap into it." It doesn't mean Wayne is claiming divinity.

John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

Someone else was saying it.

Matthew 3:1 Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, ''MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD, MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!'"

This is the author of Matthew editorializing the appearance of John the Baptist, Again Jesus not saying anything.

Here is Jesus actually saying something:

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 20:23 but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by profet

Jesus' name was not Immanuel

Matthew here is quoting from Isaiah. It is a prophesy. Just because Jesus wasn't literally named Immanuel doesn't mean the prophesy doesn't apply. The language is somewhat figurative.

Originally Posted by profet

The scribes said that, not Jesus

But Jesus doesn't deny it, does he? I think the message is clear. People interpreted Jesus' message as claiming to be God, and Jesus makes no confession otherwise.

Originally Posted by profet

These quotes are no differant then Wayne Dyer saying "there is a universal source that has always existed and we can tap into it." It doesn't mean Wayne is claiming divinity.

Did you look at the other passages that refer to these?


John 8:58 refers to Isaiah 41:4

John 17:5 refers to Isaiah 42:8

Please read the passages in light of each other.

Originally Posted by profet

Someone else was saying it.

Again, I don't see this fact as very significant. Jesus never denies it. I think the fact that the message was so powerful that other's see it for themselves without being told directly is pretty significant.

I think the Strongest arguments for the divinity of Jesus are these:

Isaiah 9:6
The comparison of Isaiah 44:6 and Revalation 2:8
The comparison of Isaiah 41:4 and John 8:58
2 Peter 1:1
Titus 2:13