Christian: Some passages about Jesus being God (Jesus Christ, Moses, Earth)

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Linus

Good points, thanks for the info. I wish I knew more Greek so I could try and understand these things a little better. I have a dictionary, but it's not exactly the same. THanks again.

Welcome.

I woudln't rely on that dictionary. Sadly, a lexicon by itself normally doesn't cut the mustard (and I've a strong antipathy towards Strongs). However, if you want to learn Greek I reccomend that you use Athanaze! and learn Attic Greek. If you have someone close who already knows it, study under them and see if you can use something like Ancient Greek Alive! (why the titles have exclamation marks, I'll never know). From there, move to the LXX and get familiar with it before or while you read the NT. Whatever you do, though, don't start with the NT. It's too easy to carry baggage in and misread the language.

The only way to fulfill that wish, though, is to spend a few years .

[Ori]

You forget "Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "Only God is truly good."

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Originally Posted by Linus

Here are some passages about the Christ's divinity I would like you all to consider. Please let me know what you think.

Matthew 1:22-23 (a reference to Isaiah 7:14)
Mark 2:5-7
John 8:58 (a reference to Exodus. 3:14)
John 10:33
John 20:28
2 Peter 1:1

Isaiah 9:6

And also, check these out.

Isaiah 40:3 compared to Matthew 3:3
Isaiah 42:8 compared to John 17:5
Isaiah 44:6 compared to Revelation 2:8
Psalm 102 compared to Hebrews 1:10-12

So if Jesus is god who according to your scriptures was he praying to on the cross. Am I to understand from the statements mentioned above he was talking to himself

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Mujahid Mohammed

So if Jesus is god who according to your scriptures was he praying to on the cross. Am I to understand from the statements mentioned above he was talking to himself

No, that would be Modalism. Christ was God the Son Incarnate, but He was not God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. On the cross He was praying to the Father. Each Divine Hypostasis (translated, poorly, into English as Person) is one in essence, but they are not the same individual and nor are they seperate gods.

James

[may]

Originally Posted by Linus

Here are some passages about the Christ's divinity I would like you all to consider. Please let me know what you think.

Matthew 1:22-23 (a reference to Isaiah 7:14)
Mark 2:5-7
John 8:58 (a reference to Exodus. 3:14)
John 10:33
John 20:28
2 Peter 1:1

Isaiah 9:6

And also, check these out.

Isaiah 40:3 compared to Matthew 3:3
Isaiah 42:8 compared to John 17:5
Isaiah 44:6 compared to Revelation 2:8
Psalm 102 compared to Hebrews 1:10-12

regarding matthew 1;22 this does not mean that God was jesus it means that God was using Jesus to accomplish his purpose look at Isaiah 8; 10
Plan out a scheme, and it will be broken up! Speak any word, and it will not stand, for God is with us......God was not with them on the earth but he was with them .

[Melody]

Originally Posted by IacobPersul

Each Divine Hypostasis (translated, poorly, into English as Person) is one in essence, but they are not the same individual and nor are they seperate gods.

James

And if that isn't enough to get your head spinning. I think this is what causes so much confusion among other faiths. Christians believe this and it's still hard to really grasp for us.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Melody

And if that isn't enough to get your head spinning. I think this is what causes so much confusion among other faiths. Christians believe this and it's still hard to really grasp for us.

Of course it's hard to grasp. The nature of God is beyond human understanding, which is why we have to rely on revelation. I once read a post on another forum (probably the Orthodox one I mentioned in a PM to you) that pointed out that all the early heresies combatted by the Church seemed to be the result of people taking logic too far rather than listening to revelation when they failed to grasp some difficult aspect of theology. I think that, with the exception of Gnosticism (which predates, and merely seems to have appropriated aspects of, Christianity) this is probably true, if a little simplistic. that's why I like the Orthodox saying that a theologian is someone who prays - philosophy and human rationalizations are all too often the lip of a slippery slope to heresy.

James

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Originally Posted by IacobPersul

No, that would be Modalism. Christ was God the Son Incarnate, but He was not God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. On the cross He was praying to the Father. Each Divine Hypostasis (translated, poorly, into English as Person) is one in essence, but they are not the same individual and nor are they seperate gods.

James

Salam,
So do you aggree with the trinity, It is to my understanding and correct me if I am wrong but the trinity is a believe that Jesus(pbuh)is the father in heaven, the son, and the holy spirit and these three are one ie. (God+Jesus+Holy spirit=1) Because if they are all equal then according to the statement made in the scriptures none of these enities that are equal can be totaly independent of each other. Please understand the confusion I have on this issue Jesus is God but not when he is on the cross because he is the son at that time. He is talking to himself is the only interpretation I can see in this from a logical perspective. Now I can see how this may not be what the authors of the book mean but it what they are saying. And if you take other statements the individual or individuals have stated in the book it becomes even more confusing. God says he is one, Jesus says the father is greater than I ie. God > Jesus now I know it says the father and I are 1 (Jesus+God=1) but when you add that in it becomes even more confusing. The scriptures say God is not the author of confusion but of peace so I ask is God Almighty the author of this? I have another question who are the authors of the scriptures old and new. How many times has it been changed in the last 100 years not even since its birth. Correct me if my understanding is incorrect but if you change even one letter it is changed. Why does all of christiandom have different beliefs but read from the same book. Correct me if I am wrong but a translation is changing the dialect or language used but the context of the phrase and words used does not change and if in fact you have different words with different context if is no longer a translation but an alteration I have never been sure but that was always my understanding. There are many other questions I have that have never been answered concerning certain things being said in that book depending on which version. Please forgive me I am not trying to sound condesending or arrogant but as a former christian these were some concerns about the subject I went to my fellow christian bretheren with very serious questions and they never either gave me an answer or could make sense of it themselves. I believe something as important as a person salvation should be looked at a the biggest investment you will ever had. ANALOGY If you had to put all the money, livelihood, and all things in this world that mean the most to you on the investment deal of a lifetime. Everything is riding on this decision wouldn't you make sure that you had all the information possible ie. you would ask as many questions as you could about every line in that contract to make sure everything is valid and true before you sign. And If you found any discepencies at all in the deal, false representations, discrepencies, contradictions at all in the contract a wise person would leave that deal alone. And you cannot alter the contract ie. the scriptures or any other sacred book from the original. It is amazing people would never invest there money or lives in a deal based on blind faith but many people are sure willing to give up there soul. Not your money but your soul. I have many other deep questions which would take up another forum. I appologize to anyone if I had said anythign to offend them I am very passionate and most of the time I say to much. May Allah forgive me for any of the mistakes in what I have said and please realize if there are any mistakes they are from shaiton and myself.

Jazakalahu khairon

Mujahid Mohammed Abdul Malik-ul-Mulk