How Early Christians Understood John 1:1

[javajo]

Originally Posted by Shermana

I think your link tries to get into the oft-discredit "Colwell's rule" which many Evangelicals rely upon but is far from universally accepted. It was basically made up just for John 1:1c it appears. There just so happen to be no other actual examples where Colwell's rule applies, and plenty of places where it is disproven. That would be great if anyone could make up their own grammar rules and cite them as proof without having to show other examples or explain all the exceptions.

Examining the Trinity: DEF - Part 2

Ok, I just try not to bring any theology into the picture and rely solely on what the very best Greek experts say and the context it is written in. It works ok for me.

theos en ho logos
God was the word
the word was God

[Shermana]

The "Very best Greek experts" are not exclusive to Evangelicals. In fact, many of these "very best experts" are disagreed against on critical issues. As far as context goes, the whole "With" issue wins that one alone on how to read it. Context is a Trinitarian's (and Antinomian's) worst enemy. Additionally, "Context" would include knowing that John was writing to an audience generally well acquainted with Philo.

If it works ok for you, great! But this is not the discussion board.

[javajo]

Well, I think its good to lay theology aside and just learn what it really says, neither one of which is easy.

[Shermana]

Originally Posted by javajo

Well, I think its good to lay theology aside and just learn what it really says, neither one of which is easy.

Somehow I doubt you'd consider applying this logic yourself. Well, if you want to say that Colwell's rule is correct, please show some examples of it where it is used other than John 1:1c.

[idea]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

I'm intrigued by some similarity between Jehovah's Witness and Latter-day Saint view of the Father and the Son. I agree that the Son is a separate person from the Father. I believe the Father and Son are "one" in their purpose, but not their substance. In what way, if any, do you believe that Jesus and God are "one"? What does it mean when you say that Jesus is "a" god, i.e., "a god was the Word".

This is our version of John 1:1

(JST | John 1:1)
1. In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.

Whoops - someone already posted the JST

here is another quote though -
http://lds.org/general-conference/20...+Holland%22%29

" We believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true."

[javajo]

Nah, I'll let you all duke it out. I'm satisfied.

[sojourner]

How early Christians understood John 1:1 is irrelevant. How we understand John 1:1 is relevant.

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by sojourner

How early Christians understood John 1:1 is irrelevant. How we understand John 1:1 is relevant.

not if its wrong!

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by sojourner

How early Christians understood John 1:1 is irrelevant. How we understand John 1:1 is relevant.

Why do you say that, sojourner? I mean, I agree that how we understand it is relevant, but if the first and second century Christians understood it one way and the fourth and first century Christians interpreted it completely differently, wouldn't that be an issue worth looking into?

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by Pegg

Hi,
yes we do have some similar beliefs. We also believe that they were 'one' in the sense of their purpose and 'one' in the sense of unity.

Jesus said that he 'does the will of his Father' and for that reason he is 'one' with his father. Jesus also told his disciples to become 'one' John 17:20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us

And we can say that Jesus is a god because the word 'god' is a title. It means 'strong mighty one'
Jesus is a strong and mighty angel of Jehovah....he is the Chief angel of Jehovah God, the first created angel. So in that way, Jesus is also a god. You may know that in the bible satan is also called a god because of his position as a ruler of the earth. 2Cor 4:4 "...whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through

If Satan can be called by the title god, then surely Jesus is also a god.

Do you believe that Jesus created the world, as in John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

In your view, what role, if any, did Jesus play under God the Father from the creation of the world until his birth?