The Orthodox/Roman Catholic Veneration of Mary, the Mother of God (Jesus, testimony)

[No*s]

Thank you Scott. I was actually lost on the Mediatrix of All Graces, but you know where I tend to err on making assumptions .

[Linus7]

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

Stumblingblocks for whom? I think me and a billion or so of us RC get it just fine.... or are you speaking for yourself?

Stumblingblocks for those members of the rest of humanity who might find "Co-Redemptrix" an obstacle to understanding the role of Mary in the economy of salvation.

Such titles are not necessary to refute any heresy or clarify any doctrine. They sound like one thing - that Mary is somehow an equal partner with Christ in redeeming humanity - and turn out to be another upon explanation, an explanation that would not be necessary if the confusing title - one not used by the Fathers - were avoided.

Why place obstacles to understanding that serve no real purpose and necessitate disingenuous-sounding explanations?

Bless you Linus7, for giving me the opportunity to clear up any confusion you may have about the Mother of God.
Mediatrix of All Graces simply means that there is no kind of grace that she cannot ask God for and mediate; and in so doing she is the "Mediatrix of All Graces"..... I am sure that some who hear this believe it means that all Grace must be somehow funneled through Mary, but it's nothing so sinister or heretical as that.

May we all be ONE!
Scott

Are you sure that's what it means?

If so, my next door neighbor is a "mediator of all graces."

[Scott1]

Hmmm.... I wasn't expecting this.

Originally Posted by Linus7

Why place obstacles to understanding that serve no real purpose and necessitate disingenuous-sounding explanations?

My explaination sounded disingenuous?
I am sorry you feel that way.

Are you sure that's what it means?

You doubt my understanding of Catholic doctrine?
I am sorry you feel that way.

It seems like it would not make much sense to continue this discussion in light of your opinion of me.

Peace be with you,
Scott

[Linus7]

SOGFPP -

I didn't mean to offend you.

I also didn't mean that your explanations sounded disingenuous.

It's just that all Latin explanations of "Co-Redemptrix" and "Mediatrix of All Graces" sound disingenuous to me. The reason for that is they fall short of justifying the rather grandiloquent titles they purport to explain.

In other words, why are such titles necessary if the beliefs they are supposed to express don't really mean that Mary is a redeemer of humanity or that all graces must come through her?

Remember also that something may sound disingenuous and yet be true.

Why do you considerate it an insult that I asked if you were sure of your understanding of "Mediatrix of All Graces"?

If, as you said, it simply means that there is nothing for which we cannot ask Mary, and that she can obtain any and all graces for us through her intercession, then how is that different from the intercession of any Christian, excepting the fact that Mary is more highly favored?

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Linus7

In other words, why are such titles necessary if the beliefs they are supposed to express don't really mean that Mary is a redeemer of humanity or that all graces must come through her?

They are not necessary.... they are not Roman Catholic dogma..... I do believe No*s mentioned that.... and the use of it on the Catholic Answers radio show is not relevant to this discussion.
I thought the inclusion of quotes from Lumen Gentium would make things abundantly clear..... THAT is official Catholic dogma and it clearly lays out Mary's subordinate role.... if you choose to continue to ignore that, and focus on your assumption that the RCC is in error for "nearly deifying her", than I can't help you.
Many ex-Protestants in the RCC have concerns about Mary as well..... I am sure that things would be much easier to explain if we could just forget about Mary altogether.... but I'm not here to teach the easiest to explain faith.... I am here to teach the truth.

Why do you considerate it an insult that I asked if you were sure of your understanding of "Mediatrix of All Graces"?

If you are not sure that I understand what it means..... why ask? It seems pretty silly to ask a question, get an answer...and because it was not what you hoped, question my ability to answer the question.

If, as you said, it simply means that there is nothing for which we cannot ask Mary, and that she can obtain any and all graces for us through her intercession, then how is that different from the intercession of any Christian, excepting the fact that Mary is more highly favored?

You just answered your own question.

Scott