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  #81  
Old 04-15-2008, 09:32 PM
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I get your point, jonny. It's a perfectly valid one. Your fears of the true motivation and consequences of this raid are plausible.
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  #82  
Old 04-15-2008, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrscardero View Post
I don't see where the government had anything to do with excommunicating those who choose to continue polygamy. I see the government solving problems to aid in those who have no say or cannot make choices on their own due to being raised with the beliefe that the girls (women) should be married to one man and bare his children.
You're missing something here, Mrs. Cardero. Prior to 1862, polygamy was not illegal in America, and when the Latter-day Saints settled the Salt Lake Valley, what is now Utah was not even part of the United States. Despite the efforts of the Church leadership to clarify the doctrine, to explain rationale behind its practice and to point out that it was, in fact, not illegal, Americans from all religious backgrounds united against the Latter-day Saints. Anti-Mormon literature exposing “the truth” about polygamy and the degradation of Mormon women was everywhere. The Morill Anti-Bigamy Act, signed into law in 1862 by Abraham Lincoln, banned plural marriage. Since nobody had bothered allocating any funds to actually enforce it, though, this law ultimately had very little effect on the Latter-day Saints.

In 1882, Congress passed the Edmunds Act, which declared polygamy to be a felony. The law made it impossible for anyone living in a polygamous family to hold public office, to serve on a jury or to vote. But that wasn’t all. It wasn’t just the civil rights of polygamist members of the Church that were affected, but the civil rights of all members of the Church who believed in the doctrine of plural marriage, regardless of whether or not they were participating in it. Adulterers and fornicators, on the other hand, had no such penalties applied and did not lose their rights. The Edmunds-Tucker Act, which was signed into law five years later (in 1887) effectively imposed fines of up to $800 and imprisonment of up to five years for anyone convicted of practicing polygamy. It dissolved the corporation of the church and directed the federal government to confiscate Church property in excess of $50,000.

This was not a matter of the government coming to anybody's aid. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints never forced anybody into polygamy. Don't misunderstand me; I'm not saying the same is true with the polygamists in Texas. I am convinced there was some pretty widespread abuse going on in that compound. But you're implying that polygamy in and of itself is characterized by a controlling, manipulative man lording it over a bunch of brainwashed women and their abused children. All jonny's saying is that that's not the case.
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  #83  
Old 04-16-2008, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny View Post
I'm curious about what people feel about the method by which the women and children were removed. I'm seeing pictures on the news now of something that looks like a tank, snipers hiding behind rocks, and SWAT teams with guns going into homes. One of the mothers said that her children had never seen a gun until they government came into their home and removed them from the home at gunpoint.

Overkill or lessons learned from Waco?
I don't think the government has yet devised any weapons that can combat faith, they were probably just preparing for the worse.
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  #84  
Old 04-16-2008, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny View Post
The reason I believe that the government is partially to blame in this mess is because the government has outlawed a religious tenant (polygamy) which, in and of itself, isn't harmful. If the relationships are between consenting adults who have chosen this lifestyle, then who cares.

Because, in the past, the government has gone after the lifestyle, these people have taken "refuge" in the desert, away from the view of society. This seclusion has enabled them to foster a culture where child brides and abuse become acceptable and the norm.

The reason why I disagree with the actions of Texas is because it will reinforce the need for them to hide from society instead of encourage them to come and join society.

Sorry if this isn't as eloquent as I'd like. I'm not feeling well and don't feel like thinking very hard. Hopefully you get the point.
it is ok. i think i understand your point. thank you
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  #85  
Old 04-16-2008, 01:33 PM
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Some of you may already be aware of this, but in case it is of interest here is a link to a website for "Banking on Heaven", a documentary about life within FLDS. It includes a trailer:

Banking on Heaven : Polygamy in the heartland of the American West : Over the Moon Productions
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  #86  
Old 04-16-2008, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
This was not a matter of the government coming to anybody's aid. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints never forced anybody into polygamy. Don't misunderstand me; I'm not saying the same is true with the polygamists in Texas. I am convinced there was some pretty widespread abuse going on in that compound. But you're implying that polygamy in and of itself is characterized by a controlling, manipulative man lording it over a bunch of brainwashed women and their abused children. All jonny's saying is that that's not the case.
Agreed.
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  #87  
Old 04-16-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan1 View Post
Some of you may already be aware of this, but in case it is of interest here is a link to a website for "Banking on Heaven", a documentary about life within FLDS. It includes a trailer:

Banking on Heaven : Polygamy in the heartland of the American West : Over the Moon Productions
I'm watching the women in the FLDS church be interviewed right now. I don't need to watch a documentary made by that psycho lady. I'm watching the real thing.
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  #88  
Old 04-16-2008, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny View Post
I'm watching the women in the FLDS church be interviewed right now. I don't need to watch a documentary made by that psycho lady. I'm watching the real thing.
You are right. I am guessing all of the women who have escaped these places are lying psychos. And there was certainly nothing strange about the women who were interviewed on Larry King or the fact that they refused to answer questions about where their husbands were and how the husbands were dealing with this. I got the impression that this was a normal loving community. Hmmmmm......
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  #89  
Old 04-16-2008, 09:40 PM
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