Why I don't 'support our troops' (and why no religious person should)

[dust1n]

Originally Posted by Kathryn

I agree that violence should be avoided if possible. But I don't believe that violence in and of itself is either morally right or morally wrong.

What makes the difference is the motive of the person or entity. In my opinion, self defense or the defense of another person is not wrong, even if that defense includes violence.

Good idea. I should walk into an armed man's house in another country with a gun, and when he pulls out his gun to defend himself, I can defend myself. How moral?

War by it's very nature is often ambiguous morally. In those cases, I believe that God knows our hearts and motivations - and He's the ultimate judge and jury.

So God ignores the ignorance of his own laws in determining whether or not they are sinning?

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by dust1n

Good idea. I should walk into an armed man's house in another country with a gun, and when he pulls out his gun to defend himself, I can defend myself. How moral?

how dare you question the american nigthmare scenario....

of these men breaking into your house..and the need to kill them.

I have heard this a million times....

Heck it leads to people believing its sane to be prepared to machete an intruder to death......

fear, death, machetes and charlton heston..... I love america

[dust1n]

Originally Posted by *Anne*

However, I can never say I think killing is wrong in all cases, across the board. For example, if a person breaks into my home and directly threatens my life or the lives of my loved ones, I will kill him if necessary.

So then, wouldn't he be in self-defense if you killed him at that point because you were trying to kill him?

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by dust1n

So then, wouldn't he be in self-defense if you killed him at that point because you were trying to kill him?

This actually happend in England....

A guy shot an intruder with a double barrelled shot gun....

surpringly the intruder wasnt in a happy place after....

but then, different culture....

Americans like their guns..and the ability to mortally maim or shoot someone

Its that pesky culture of fear thing....

"If God made man they say, Sam Colt made him Equal"

I dont get it personally....

I know I always have a kitchen knife...a spork or a bottle of Hydochloric acid under the sink that I used on the last victim when I put her in the bath to melt the body last time....

[dust1n]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Oh, I agree completely.

I think that if the Palestinians could produce a Ghandi, that would be the first step towards peace. A visionary who convinces the Arab states to follow non-violence would end the conflict forever.

Well, violence didn't end after Gandhi, only British occupation of India ended after Ghandi, and that was after years of continuing British violence.

[*Anne*]

Originally Posted by dust1n

So then, wouldn't he be in self-defense if you killed him at that point because you were trying to kill him?

I can see this conversation is pointless.

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by *Anne*

I can see this conversation is pointless.

Well I can understand if you lived in a bad neighborhood...you may have a reason

I know a guy, left his wife and moved...he ended up living in a part of Indiana where the drug stores actually had armed guards outside after the sun went down.........

Now thats the good old America we all enjoy!

Of course if people bothered to invest in the poor instead of sucking the penis of the right wing political stance that this country has had for decades....... but no, the poor are the poor.... "let them eat cake"

So what we have is cure not prevention...we dont prevent gangreen, we just saw off the leg; we dont prevent the culture of fear, violence, gun toting crack fiends......we just shoot them to DEATH.

but I'm just a crazy liberal

[dust1n]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

how dare you question the american nigthmare scenario....

of these men breaking into your house..and the need to kill them.

I have heard this a million times....

Heck it leads to people believing its sane to be prepared to machete an intruder to death......

fear, death, machetes and charlton heston..... I love america

I just don't understand... how are you defending yourself or loved ones by being 1000 miles away from them?

[dust1n]

Originally Posted by *Anne*

I can see this conversation is pointless.

No it's not. That would be self-defense in the same sense the other person was self-defensing. Articulate the difference between the two that would hold true in all cases, by means of premise and conclusion.

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by dust1n

I just don't understand... how are you defending yourself or loved ones by being 1000 miles away from them?

oh different issue...

in a word...terrorism

but thats a whole can of worms