Karma & Rebirth: The only logical choice & I can prove it

[RamaRaksha]

Originally Posted by Anti-religion

The bahai discussion went here too,
One world religion?

Rama raksha,ur thread title is misleading,even though reincarnation is possible,it cannot be conclusively proved.

Please reread the title - i am not out to prove rebirth or karma, I am saying it is the only logical choice, and that is what I was proving in my post. However I only comapared this choice with the choice of hell & heaven, there could be other scenarios, like a person dying and that being the end of it, though that would not be a choice.

[cardero]

Originally Posted by RamaRaksha

Please reread the title - i am not out to prove rebirth or karma, I am saying it is the only logical choice, and that is what I was proving in my post. However I only comapared this choice with the choice of hell & heaven, there could be other scenarios, like a person dying and that being the end of it, though that would not be a choice.

Choosing non-existence after death is actually a choice (as is staying in the spiritual realm) but I cannot imagine that non-existence is a popular choice.

[Anti-religion]

Originally Posted by cardero

Choosing non-existence after death is actually a choice (as is staying in the spiritual realm) but I cannot imagine that non-existence is a popular choice.

Probably the most popular choice.It is the famous atheistic one.

[RamaRaksha]

Originally Posted by BruceDLimber

Greetings!



No, RR: you are clearly oversimplifying this and ignoring almost all of the passage. (And besides the fact that the "grains" thing was simply an illustrative analogy, scientists are widely agreed that each grain is indeed unique to at least an extent.)

[quote\First of all I think you are mistaken that this a Bahai Scripture, it's taken from their library but it is obviously an islamic teaching.

It is "obviously" no such thing!

It may or may not also be an Islamic tehing, but that doesn't change the fact that the passage is part of the Baha'i scriptures, and the Baha'i Faith is a distinct faith seaparate from Islam.

The book from which it's taken is Some Answered Questions, which essentially anyone familiar with the Faith can tell you is indeed Baha'i scripture (along with several hundred other books)!

Nor is our concept of Heaven and hell the stereotypic one of an old man on a throne judging individuals and permitting them entrance to Heaven or condemning them to hell! Our scriptures portray a vastly different scenario; details upon request.

Oh, and Scarlett, I in no way said or meant to imply that my stance was superior to anyone else's.

Peace, :-)

bruce[/quote]

Exactly what do grains have anything to do with rebirth? How is it even an illustration? And you haven't answered my question - if 2 grains are alike does that prove rebirth? I say they don't because this has nothing to do with grains or snowflakes either. Reminds me of a joke - this guy was looking for his lost wallet and when a passerby asks him where he lost it, he points to some distance away and when the passrby asks him then why he is looking here, he answers - because the light is better here! LOL.

Rebirth does not mean that he is going to look the same. In this birth I am a man born in India, in my next I could be born an animal (as I posted only by being born as a Dog would I learn to love unconditionally) or as a woman in say, central africa, or as a man in Japan. I wouldn't look the same - it is the atma that is eternal and as they say, like a man changing clothes, it moves from one body to another.

I love it when the topic of proving rebirth and karma comes up - this is faith!!! Where's your proof for a bearded guy running a heaven & hell? You have a book?

I am quite disappointed in the Bahai religion - seems to me it is a rehash of the King Religion - If a religion doesn't teach, that after death you cower on your knees in front of this King who will do evil things to you if you don't, then it's not acceptable?

Hinduism & Buddhism are Teacher religions - we are responsible for our actions - there is no King God to forgive us (Everyone is forgiven according to christians - that means the likes of Hitler, Pedophiles and Terrorists are enjoying this King's hospitality while their victims are left here on earth to deal with the pain and suffering they caused). We Hindus are asked to take responsibility, stand tall, don't run away, come back and try to make amends - that's Karma & Rebirth.

I have given the example of the man who caused the accident. If I was that man, I wouldn't callously walk into heaven, I would beg and plead God to let me come back, help those unfortunate people who have had a similar misfortune, that's the only way I could ever forgive myself.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by RamaRaksha

Please reread the title - i am not out to prove rebirth or karma, I am saying it is the only logical choice, and that is what I was proving in my post. However I only comapared this choice with the choice of hell & heaven, there could be other scenarios, like a person dying and that being the end of it, though that would not be a choice.

um..
How is it logical to claim that a choice that is completely unproven and unprovable is the most the logical choice?

Seems to me that it amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking.

[cardero]

Originally Posted by RamaRaksha

I have given the example of the man who caused the accident. If I was that man, I wouldn't callously walk into heaven, I would beg and plead God to let me come back, help those unfortunate people who have had a similar misfortune, that's the only way I could ever forgive myself.

What if there were no accidental deaths or tragedies? What if deaths were purposefully, previously arranged by entities before incarnating into a physical existence? What if all one had to do to meet their final death was to be in the right place at the right time? There would be no need for justice, no need for karma.

[RamaRaksha]

Originally Posted by Anti-religion

Probably the most popular choice.It is the famous atheistic one.

But why? Why not be reborn as Brad Pitt? Would you turn that down? Or a Mozart? Now that I would love to come back as. When I hear good music or wonderful poetry I literally cry, and get so jeolous of those people who could write or compose music like that. I wish I could do the same.

My favorite person-like to come back would be as an Veterinarian working in the Yorkshire dales sometime back in the 1930's lol. Anyone read - All Creatures Great & Small by James Herriott?

[Anti-religion]

Originally Posted by RamaRaksha

But why? Why not be reborn as Brad Pitt? Would you turn that down? Or a Mozart? Now that I would love to come back as. When I hear good music or wonderful poetry I literally cry, and get so jeolous of those people who could write or compose music like that. I wish I could do the same.

My favorite person-like to come back would be as an Veterinarian working in the Yorkshire dales sometime back in the 1930's lol. Anyone read - All Creatures Great & Small by James Herriott?

I am saying this view(atheistic one,no afterlife) is a popular one ,that may not be the correct one.Anyway the statement was not directed at you.

[RamaRaksha]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

um..
How is it logical to claim that a choice that is completely unproven and unprovable is the most the logical choice?

Seems to me that it amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking.

Many scientists advance simply theories that best fit a given scenario - even Einstein has done that, some of his theories were only proven or disproven long after his death.

Have you heard of the string theory? The theory that explains everything? Not a shred of evidence so far. This theory talks about multiple universes, multiple planes of existence (one of my other selves could be doing something completely different right now) - yet this is being taken seriously by a lot of scientists.

[cardero]

Originally Posted by RamaRaksha

But why? Why not be reborn as Brad Pitt?

Or Lassie?
Or Flipper?
Or that chimp from those Clint Eastwood movies?