Religion in school (choice, America, church, atheist, religions)

[F_R_O_G]

ok good , but do you bleive there can be a student lead prayer at a football game?

correction from last post*
but that would (not) be a good idea.

[Runt]

Can there be a student led prayer at a football game? Yes. SHOULD there be? No. It is not fair to people who believe differently than the person leading the prayer. People come to football games to watch football. People can go to church to pray in groups, or they can pray alone and silently.

[THEDARKONE4]

Religion should be allowed in schools. The only reason it isn't still in schools is because of the Supreme Court of 1962-1963 that took what Thomas Jefferson said completely out of context and also changed the definition of church.

[painted wolf]

THEDARKONE4
If mr. Jefferson was so for church being a part of government why did he kick it our of the Verginia constitution?
The problem, and he knew this, is who's church do you let run the schools... its either all or none and right now none is best.

private religious schools are ok, but church must stay out of public education.

check out:
http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia...red/vaact.html

wa:-do

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by THEDARKONE4

Religion should be allowed in schools. The only reason it isn't still in schools is because of the Supreme Court of 1962-1963 that took what Thomas Jefferson said completely out of context and also changed the definition of church.

Really?? Well, what did he say and how was it taken out of context, and what do you believe he really meant? Please keep in mind that Mr. Jefferson held Unitarian beliefs....

[F_R_O_G]

We can start by saying that Jefferson was only referring to the federal government and not the states that runn the schools...

[w00t]

While all the main world's religions should be studied in schools, I do not believe that it is appropriate for a state school to proselytize.

[painted wolf]

FROG-
you didn't check out my link on Jefferson getting rid of state churches did you? :roll:
He made shure that it wouldn't happin... Jefferson was for TOTAL SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! both on federal and state levels...
again check out...
http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia...red/vaact.html

I agree with you Tangenfedd that it is important to study religion so that you can have a balanced outlook and not an ignorat one... and that shools (unless you pay for it) should not try to convert others...

wa:-do

[F_R_O_G]

Why do you favor one statement over another, I have read his letter, it is very clear what he is trying to say is a wall that blocks all influence from the state to the church.

Lets discuses these quotes

"Well aware that Almighty God hath created the mind"
"All attempts to influence it [mind] by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness"
"And are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion"
"Who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do"
"That the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men"

And this is just from a small part of the first paragraph, after quoting so much stuff I realized that I was quoting the letter; the entire letter is filled with reasons why we should have religion in school and why we should be able to pray over the loud speakers at the beginning of a football game.

Look, the entire first paragraph tell of how he came to the conclusion that there is a wall that blocks the state from being involved in the church. If you look at the very first sentence it shows that God created the mind. And for that very reason we have freedom of religion not freedom from religion. "Total separation of church and state is not possible" (Lemen v somebody) so even the courts admit it is impossible to have a wall of separation, so how could someone so smart be referring to something that is impossible?

Btw he could not be meaning what your saying he’s meaning and also say "all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

[painted wolf]

well if you want to trade quotes by Jefferson on religon...

his words on the subject...

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

"They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion." to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

shall I go on?

wa:-do