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#131
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Matthew 7:12, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" |
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#132
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Mr. Sprinkles our tax dollar is already going to an atheistic public school...where they won't let you publicly pray, where crimes are growing because most people don’t have any moral values, where they teach evolution instead of creation because they think coming from apes is more logical than being created by God.
Do you believe are forefathers died for their Muslim beliefs or even for a” No God Nation”? I don't think so, they died for the only living and true God because they wanted to worship him freely and not in hiding like most of the Christians had to do. Do you know that Christian schools get better grades than almost every public school? Not just because they are smart but because they know God and live by him and for him. I’m not saying public schools are stupid but they would be a lot smarter if God was in their lives. If Discipline was used in schools there might be fewer crimes. Now if you get in trouble you get suspended and sent home to your parents where they might just give the “don’t do it again speech." In Christian schools they discipline...they give them more homework or have them help the janitor or something. If we were taught Muslim beliefs...may God help us all because we'd all be killing each other. It's a fact that terrorism and Muslim beliefs are linked. They believe the more people you kill the more people you will have in paradise or wherever they believe they go when they die. Now a lot of the Muslims are peaceful because they have been civilized by a Christian nation. There are still many other reasons why we should have God in our schools and those are just a few reasons why.
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I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 |
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#133
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#134
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"Atheist means you do not beleive in God. Public schools do not teach that there is a God, nor do they teach that there is NO God. The government doesn't teach either beleif, they let the parents do that."
The federal judiciary has no business making all of our philosophic judgments for us and establishing agnosticism or atheism. There is no Constitutional authority for them to be doing what they have done. Indeed, if their tyrranical notions were really Constitutional then the Constitution would be unconstitutional because it mentions God (puts God as sovereign over or Creator of time by saying, "In the year of our Lord...") and "establishes" a religious doctrine (keeping the sabbath holy, Sundays are exempt from the time a President has to consider and veto a bill.) This bit about denying that state schools teach that there is no God is specious. State schools teach Darwinism that has always been predicated on atheistic theological arguments. E.g. Darwin: "This explains suffering in the world better." "Why would God design something in this faulty way?" Etc. Quote:
What part of government are you talking about? Actually, the Constitution reads that Congress shall make no law.... not that "government" shall make no law. In fact, this law was passed to protect all the laws that communties had from federal intrustion. Geez.... how have we got to the exact opposite in which the Constitution does not protect religion but is said to extirpate it from public life... ignorance is bliss for the disinformed and fodder for atheistic totalitarians, I guess. "The difference between the bad and the good people is their morals, not their religious beliefs." What is it that you're judging their morals by? "Evolution is widely accepted by the scientific community (which is composed of scientists of all faiths). It has evidence to support it. Students are free to draw their own conclusions as to what caused evolution (God, Allah, etc)." The propaganda word "evolution" can mean anything from "change" to a total explanation for reality as we know it. Typically, this process of defining it depends on how threatened that the science geeks who simply made a mythology up feel when confronted with anomalous empirical facts. "Yes, they wanted to worship freely-- and they wanted people of ALL faiths to worship freely. And they wanted the government to stay out of it." It is important to remember that the only reason that the notion that separation of church and state came about and was adhered to is because of Protestant Christianity. In fact, it seems as Christianity declines there is less separation and you find state schools teaching Nature based mythologies, establishing agnosticism or atheism, etc., regardless what parents/communities want. "A dumb, lazy student who beleives in God will not do better than a smart, hard-working student who does not believe in God. " Not the point, students who don't believe in God tend towards numerous problems which lead them to the physical rather than the metaphysical. So they are fodder for atheistic totalitarian's physically based indoctrination techniques instead of the education typical to the critical metaphysical mind. This process has been called "The Closing of the American Mind." Of course, in some Orwellian twist those whose minds are the most closed believe them to be the most open. "God is in the lives of many, many kids at public schools. That's because most parents don't depend on government employees to teach their kids about God." Most parents/communities want to be able to decide what to teach their kids sans interference by atheistic totalitarians using the state to indoctrinate. But note how fiercely totalitarians fight to keep parents from making certain decisions, e.g. school vouchers. E.g. indoctrinating Darwinian mythology as a "fact." Etc. "I agree--all schools must have discipline. " Well, atheistic philosophies that deny the metaphysical are the least capable of discipline, i.e. sitting in judgment on the physical. That is all they are themselves, after all, just one rationalization after another but no rationale. "You're ignorance astounds me. Your characterization of Muslims would be like a Muslim saying it's a fact that Christians believe in lynching blacks, gassing Jews, burning "witches" and heretics alive, etc. Neither is a fair characterization." Christians didn't believe in lynching blacks because of Christianity. The Nazis gassed the Jews and they believed in Nature based mythology and paganism, part of the reasoning for the elimination of the "Jewish influence." They forbid publishing the Bible, etc. Interesting how the Catholic church signed a concordat to keep issues of church separate from the state. I.e. separation of church and state.... this seems to be the kind of separation that atheistic totalitarians have in mind. It was not what the American Founders had in mind in the least. You didn't really refute what he said about the correlation between Islam and terrorism. Why is it that Muslims are fighting Hindus using methods of terrrorism, fighting Jews using methods of terrorism, fighting America using methods of terrorism, fighting Europeans using methods of terrorism, etc. Most other religions and nations do not demonstrate this broad and deep pattern that is typical to Islam. There are isolated incidence here and there but not this type of phenonema. So what is your explanation for the facts? Let's stick to the facts instead of going immediately to "characterization." |
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#135
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This was written by my friend.
Separation Of Church And State 1 "The separation of church and state" is a common phrase used by lawmakers, schools, and lawyers, yet most Americans do not even know where the phrase originated from. Some of the more educated people might tell you the "the separation of church and state" is part of the first amendment. David Barton, a Christian historian, had a discussion with a U.S Congressman, also an accomplished attorney, about the importance of religious values in public affairs. He stated, "We know they're important; we just can't do anything about it." Barton asked "Why not?" He replied, "Well, we just can't." Barton persisted, "Why?" He answered, "because of 'the separation of church and state'-we cannot have religious values in public affairs." Barton questioned him, '" Separation of church and state' where is that?" He replied, "its in the constitution- the constitution will not let us do it." Barton responded, "That's not in the Constitution." He said, "Yes it is." they went back and forth, eventually Barton handed him a copy of the Constitution and asked him to show him the phrase. He said "I'd be happy to" and he immediately went to the first amendment and became very red in the face. He said, "I can't believe this! In Law School they always taught us that's what the First Amendment said." He was never required to read the constitution in law school. "Separation," "church," or "state" are not used in any Founding documents, including the First Amendment [Myth Of Separation Barton, page 3-4]. The rioting and looting that often follow a victorious sports event, and the rise in rape, Murder, and theft that we can see on our local news channels illustrate that crime is 2 out of control in America today. Was America always like that, or have we changed? Why is there so much disrespect of authority and elders in our schools and on the streets? Why does the largest "Christian" nation in the world deny the use of the of the Word God, or anything related to Christianity in our public schools, our government or any public event, claiming it to be unconstitutional and against our First Amendment? These are questions that should not have to be asked if American lawmakers, lawyers, presidents and all American citizens knew their history and the Godly foundations our nation was created from. In 1731, one-hundred settlers moved into Georgia territory. When they touched shore, they kneeled in thanks to God. They said, "our end in leaving our native country is not to gain riches and honor, but singly this: to live wholly to the glory of God" [Myth of Separation, Barton, 43] This feeling could be said for almost anyone of our founding fathers. These feelings can be seen in many of the State constitutions, such as Delaware's "Article 22. Every person, who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust . shall. make and subscribe the following declaration, to whit:" "I,__________, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore: and I do Acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration." Take also the Pennsylvania constitution. Frame of Government; Section 10. And each member of the Legislature before he takes a seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz: "I do believe in one God , the creator and governor of the Universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked, and I do acknowledge the Scriptures 3 of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration." The Massachusetts constitution states: Chapter VI, Article I. All persons elected to states office or to the legislature must make and subscribe the following declaration, viz. "I,_________, do declare, that I believe the Christian religion, and have firm persuasion of its truth." [Myth Of Separation, Barton 23-25] I could go on and on with these types of founding documents. Patrick Henry said "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." [Myth Of Separation, Barton, 118] There are many quotes from our founding fathers showing their devout Christian faith, and the dream they had of building a country based on Biblical principles and morals. Not until the middle of this century have history books ceased to carry any mention of the faith of our founders. So what brought about this change? The devil has influenced many minds to change the wording and meanings of our founding documents through court cases, helped along with the increasing number of Americans who do not care what happens in government. Recently Judge Roy More, residing in Alabama, was removed from his court because he refused to remove a monument containing the ten commandments and many quotes from our founding fathers that referred to our Christian nation. The U.S Supreme Court told Judge Roy More to remove the monument because it was unconstitutional. Nothing of this court case was heard on public radio or on national television. In the 1892 court case, Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, the court ruled that 4 Christian principles and morals must be taught in schools. The supreme court ruled "No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people. this is a Christian Nation." [Demar, 11] This was a short case, in only 16 pages of court records, 87 precedents were quoted from founding fathers and previous court rulings. So how, 110 years later, is a judge reprimanded for displaying the 10 commandments in his court room? June 25, 1962, in Engel vs. Vital, the turning point in the history of America takes place. Prayer is deemed unconstitutional in schools. In a similar case in, June 1963 Students are no longer able to read or bring their Bible into public school because it is declared unconstitutional. These two cases were the first cases in American history were they had zero precedence's, no quotes from founding fathers, and no previous court case rulings. Their sole argument was based on an out-of-context explanation of the First Amendment by President Thomas Jefferson. In 1802, the Danbury Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut , wrote to President Jefferson expressing fears of a "One denominational government." [Myth of Separation, Barton, 41] However, each state encouraged Christianity, no state allowed an exclusive state-sponsored denomination. Still, many citizens remembered earlier years when one denomination ruled over and oppressed all others. It was in this context that president Jefferson replied, "I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and state." [Demar, 65-68] Remember the First Amendment 5 simply states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." (and it is important to state that the word "religion" that our founders used is in the same context as "Christian denomination") So basically, the First Amendment sates that: "It is unconstitutional to set up any State or One denomination, or prohibit the exercise of any Christian denomination." Why, then, did Jefferson use the phrase "A wall of separation between church and state." First of all, Jefferson was addressing a group of Baptists, a denomination of which he was not a member, and was seeking to achieve a common ground necessary between an author and his audience. By using the phrase "a wall of separation" Jefferson was actually borrowing the words from a prominent Baptist minister, Rodger Williams. Williams words had been: "when they have opened a gap in the hedge or Wall Of Separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself ..and that there for if He will err please to restore His garden and paradise again , it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world." According to Williams, The "wall of separation" was to protect the "garden of the church " from the "wilderness of the world." [Myth Of Separation, Barton, page 42-43] This was also Jefferson's understanding through his statements concerning the First Amendment. Also, none of these writings were recorded as documents and none of the wordings of these letters has ever been a part of our constitution. This has been completely ignored by the supreme court on many occasions. The phrase "separation of church and state" is quoted so often in our courts today that many think it is part of our constitution. Even learned lawyers and the supreme court are fooled by the phrase. 6 So, what's so bad about all this? What's wrong with a separation between the church and the state? Many studies have been done since the Engel vs. Vital case that have proven that the morality, the crime rate, and the general welfare of American citizens has decreased since prayer and Bible reading have been taken out of our public schools. Many of our founding fathers predicted this. Let's take a look at some of their quotes. President John Quincy Adams stated "we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." [Foundations of American government, Barton, page 6] This would explain some of the wild looting and crazy actions of crowds following a sports event. With the Bible out of schools, people are no longer taught "unconstitutional" moral standards but are merely "unbridled" without conviction. In Washington's farewell address he gave many warnings, including this: "Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds. reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." The supreme court did not heed this warning when they ruled that it is unconstitutional for the Ten Commandments to hang on the walls of a classroom, since the students might be lead to read them, meditate upon them, respect them, or obey them. Stone v. Graham, 1980, Ring v. Grand Forks Public School Dist.,1980; Lanner v. Wimmer, 1981. This had to be passed after the Engel v. Vital case of 1962. And since the Engel v. Vital case, the birth rate for unwed girls 15-19 years of age increased 50% from 1962-1987. Violent crime has gone from .25 million offenders in 1963 to 1.7 million offenders in 1990, while 7 the population only grew .3 million people in the same time period. Sexually transmitted diseases in age group 15-19, has gone from 350 contracted diseases per 100,000 teens in 1962, to 1300 infected teens out of every 100,000 in 1975.[Myth of Separation, Barton, 209-216] But what can we expect when "national morality" is no longer influenced by "religious principle". Unless there is a reversal in our government today, I do not believe our nation will survive much longer. Men are accountable to God, and will give account for their souls before the Great White Throne on Judgment Day. So, how does a nation get judged from God? It is this day and age that America will be judged for turning its back on the principles of Gods laws, and the morals he has set before us in his perfect Commandments. Humanists, and Atheist religions, the ideas of the Knew World Order, the anti-Christian anti-American U.N, and elite groups such as the Council On Foreign Relations are some of the contributors trying to destroy Americas Godly Heritage. Unless we remove these groups from America, and reestablish the ways of our Founding Fathers, America is heading on a road to destruction. No Nation will last forever but there is still hope for our country if Christians and true patriots become involved with our government. CENTRAL BAPTIST CHRISTIAN SCHOOL SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE A PROJECT SUBMITTED TO Mrs. Francis ENGLISH GRAMMER By Brett Moody Yorkshire, NY 25 may 2004 SOURCES CONSULTED Barton, David. "In Defense Of The Ten Commandments" AFA Journal, Nov/Dec 2003, page 22-29 Barton, David. The Foundations Of American Government, 1st ed. Aledo, Texas: Wallbuilder Press, 1993 Barton, David. The Myth Of Separation, 3rd ed. Aledo, Texas: Wallbuilder Press, 1993 Barton, David. Americas Godly Heritage. Wallbuilders video, 1990. Video Barton, David. What The Founding Fathers Really Meant By "Separation of Church and State" Wallbuilders video, 1992. Video Demar, Gary. America's Christian Heritage, 1st ed. Nashville, Tennessee; Broadman and Holman Publishers, 2003 Unknown author. Anti-Separation of Church and State, httpcom/EndTheWall/Index.htm://members.aol. (accessed 19 May 2004)
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I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 |
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#136
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so why not just pass a law making freedom of religion illigal and get it over with... That should take care of your problems now shouldn't it...
if everyone has to be christian, then everyone will good, respectfull and nice to one another and anyone who wants to follow another faith can either convert or go live in some other country... or better yet you can establish small segrigtaed communities for them so they don't bother anyone elce... of cource only athiests and pagans will complain about this but hey, they are going to burn in hell anyway so what does it matter? everyone knows that eventually the christians will rule the world anyway. :roll: |
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#137
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"...so why not just pass a law making freedom of religion illigal and get it over with... "
Because we are still living in a nation in which there is enough Christian moral capital left that that is not done. The notion of separation comes from Christianity, after all. In pagan nations there has been no separation. In atheistic nations there has been no separation. So to answer your question, it's the remnants of Christianity in our collective consciousness. "...if everyone has to be christian, then everyone will good, respectfull and nice to one another..." In Christianity, everyone does not have to be Christian but it is up to Christians to tell others the gospel. The fruits of Christianity are things like tolerance and separation of church and state. But not the type of separation that you might be thinking of that is similar to the "separation" that the Catholic church agreed to with the pagan Nazis. Note how leftists tend to blame the Catholic church for that although they are generally still the ones who demand the same sort of separation. "...or better yet you can establish small segrigtaed communities for them so they don't bother anyone elce..." Christianity attenuates pagan tribalism, it doesn't create it. Now, if Christianity is to be separated from the state and the state is to be atheistic/agnostic and/or pagan then you will really see what segregation by class/Marxism and race/Nazism looks like. "...of cource only athiests and pagans will complain about this but hey, they are going to burn in hell anyway so what does it matter?" As long as there are relatively few atheists and pagans they will be afforded tolerance by Christians and a state founded on Christian principles. But when they are the majority and control the state then you will see what tribalistic and classist intolerance truly looks like. This fear-mongering with respect to Christianity rings false in light of the historical facts. "....everyone knows that eventually the christians will rule the world anyway." Please, it has always been the Nature/world based religions that have been most concerned with ruling the world. I suspect that all the history you have studied comes from the myopic perspective of tribalistic victimization and has little to do with what actually has generally promoted and will promote all of our general welfare. And what will attenuate tribalism itself. |
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#138
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