Arrogancy (beliefs, preach, church, theist, sin)

[Circle_One]

Originally Posted by No*s

Simply by asserting we believe in one truth doesn't mean that we are pushing beliefs on you, and it can be practiced in the opposite direction as well. If that were so, I could easily cry foul every time someone tried to tell me that what is spiritually true for me was for me, but it didn't follow for other people. To conform, I must change these.

I know that No*s, I wasn't saying people were pushing their beliefs on me. I said earlier that there is only a select minority that take it to the extremes I mentioned, and there are, just as I'm sure there are a minority of Pagans who take it to extremes akin to that.

[Scuba Pete]

but I would never push them onto others by telling them my way is the only truth

Amen, sister. That was my point earlier.

If you like what you see, then by all means pursue it. If you don't like it, then pursue something else.

But don't hold it against ME if I think you are wrong. That's my right and I hope you won't push your belief of "Everyone is right" onto me!

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

We all want to be special. This shows in lots of aspects of life, not just religion. I personally find that if a person is humble, than that person better reflects their religion. But when they are arrogant, I never want anymore to do with them. I firmly believe that true religion has no title, no book, no laws. This religion is goodness. You may know alot about scripture, or about religious history, but that means absolutely nothing if you don't participate in goodness. A pagan can participate, a jew, christian, wiccan, shaman, taoist, buddhist, etc... I feel leading by example is better than leading by a book, or a big head.

So can the position you hold. Pride crosses all theological boundries. For instance, your position may be used against those who disagree as if they are less enlightened. When used in this way, it undermines the appeal that we are all one to those of us who do not share it just as readily as lack of love undermines the Christian appeal.

The second thing is that you believe "true religion has no title, no book, no laws. This religion is goodness." Do you not see how this very statement can be used as a vessel for pride? Since there is no standard by which we can say a thing is or is not goodness, I could use that philosophy to justify more actions than you would allow.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Circle_One

I know that No*s, I wasn't saying people were pushing their beliefs on me. I said earlier that there is only a select minority that take it to the extremes I mentioned, and there are, just as I'm sure there are a minority of Pagans who take it to extremes akin to that.

Ah. I took that last one as equating the assertion of absolute truth with the act of pushing one's beliefs on others.

My apologies.

[SoulTYPE]

See this is why I don't choose any specific religion. I don't want to pressure any others to think they are focusing on false beliefs in Gods.

OT- This also applies to my RF given respect for Christians.

[Circle_One]

Originally Posted by No*s

Ah. I took that last one as equating the assertion of absolute truth with the act of pushing one's beliefs on others.

My apologies.

No apologies needed my friend.

[SoulTYPE]

OI,

Also I may not respect the person, I respect their religious beliefs.

It's them that makes the decsions, not me.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by hoomer

The point I ws trying to make with this thread is 2 fold...

1. its arrogant to assume only YOU have the truth.....imo

2. When one worships one's dogma/religion/science text book ....INSTEAD of God/reality....then one is lost.....

WOrship God not the religion.....

Well for point 1, is it arrogant if someone accepts a belief that says this and conforms themselves to it? There's a world of difference between accepting something, and creating something. If I were to create a system, and call it exclusive truth, then that would be indisputably arrogant.

However, if I believe a set of exclusivist beliefs, and I express inclusivist ideas, is it humility or dishonesty? I would say the latter. Most exclusivist truth claims come (including mine) from an acceptance of divine revelation. Unless you are comfortable in banning entire belief systems with your statement, then it is very thin ice.

Another point that builds up to it is that every time you make a truth claim, you exclude everyone who disagrees. On that issue, you have it right, and they don't. It just isn't couched in a systematic religious system. For instance, in this thread, you are claiming that such a system distracts one from God. Over half of the world's population believes in such a system. Simply by making this claim, you have become an exclusivist, because you deny the fundamental tenet of the majority of the world (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam add up to more than half the world's population).

On point 2, I refer to the preceding paragraph. You have just proposed a religious system, and you have made it exclusivist. It does not mesh well with point 1, and subjects you to your own criticism.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Circle_One

No apologies needed my friend.

Thank you C1 .

[SoulTYPE]

Is there any occasion of jealousy involved in one despising another's beliefs? I think that Vigil dude posted something previously about it.