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Reload this Page Golden calf and bible? (Jesus, Moses, HaShem, worship, Commandment)
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  #1  
Old 02-02-2005, 10:36 PM
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Default Golden calf and bible?
Ok, this is a wierd idea. I know that the first commandment says not to worship any other god, or an idol. And thats what moses found with the golden calf insident. Now, they were not necessarily worshipping the golden calf, but what it represented correct? These days do you think some christians worship the bible because it is "god's word," or perhaps "god"? Is this a form of worshipping an idol? And I'm sure some believe the difference between the bible and god, but they still believe the bible is infallible, but isn't thats god's department?
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2005, 10:42 PM
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Yes it is. Some of us in Christianity who don't hold to the infallability of Scripture have often called that "bibliolatry." Since I abandoned Sola Scriptura, I've gone so far as to consider that the same thing.

We agree on this point as far as it's gone .
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2005, 12:41 AM
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The image of the golden calf was most likely a representation of Hathor a competing deity.
What about Crosses and Crusifixes and Jesus fish and the like?
Arn't they all idols as well?

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Old 02-03-2005, 02:53 AM
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John 4:23, 24, JB: "True worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father wants. God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth." (Those who rely on images as aids to devotion are not worshiping God "in spirit" but they depend on what they can see with their physical eyes.)

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Old 02-03-2005, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by may
John 4:23, 24, JB: "True worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father wants. God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth." (Those who rely on images as aids to devotion are not worshiping God "in spirit" but they depend on what they can see with their physical eyes.)
So, May, did God command the worshippers in the Old Testament not to worship in spirit and truth, when He commanded the building of the Ark of the Coevenant and all those wonderful images in the Temple?
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by No*s
So, May, did God command the worshippers in the Old Testament not to worship in spirit and truth, when He commanded the building of the Ark of the Coevenant and all those wonderful images in the Temple?
They were ordered to build exactly what was specified and no more for fear of bringing in idolitry into the Temple.

There should be no image or representation worshiped...only HaShem Himself
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jewscout
They were ordered to build exactly what was specified and no more for fear of bringing in idolitry into the Temple.

There should be no image or representation worshiped...only HaShem Himself
Yes, this is very true (to a degree). One need remember that we have uncovered ancient synagogues, and they had some images. These passages with images also play into Christian theology quite a bit also. We may venerate, but not adore (worship) things.

Many sects like to use the prohibition against images to forbid everything from pledging to the flag to crosses to even fundamental Christian ideology. Rarely do they grapple with these passages. That's why I brought it up .
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted wolf
The image of the golden calf was most likely a representation of Hathor a competing deity.
It was standard Syro-Palestinian iconography that could have easily represented Baal, Dagon, El, etc. This is also reflected in the text, i.e., "These are your Gods [plural], Oh Israel."

Note, by the way, that this is another example of text that was subsequently 'cleaned up' by the redactors ...
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Old 02-03-2005, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by No*s
So, May, did God command the worshippers in the Old Testament not to worship in spirit and truth, when He commanded the building of the Ark of the Coevenant and all those wonderful images in the Temple?





.









These representations, however, were not idols for worship. Only the officiating priests saw the representations of the tabernacle interior and, later, of the temple interior. No one but the high priest entered the Most Holy, and that only on the Day of Atonement. (Heb 9:7) so there was no danger of the Israelites’ being ensnared into idolizing the golden cherubs in the sanctuary. These representations primarily served as a picture of the heavenly cherubs. (Compare Heb 9:24, 25.) That they were not to be venerated is evident from the fact that the angels themselves were not to be worshiped.—Col 2:18; Re 19:10; 22:8, 9.

Of course, there were times when images became idols, although not originally intended as objects of veneration. The copper serpent that Moses formed in the wilderness came to be worshiped, and therefore faithful King Hezekiah crushed it to pieces. (Nu 21:9; 2Ki 18:1, 4) The ephod made by Judge Gideon became "a snare" to him and to his household.—Jg 8:27

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Old 02-03-2005, 11:17 AM
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Your whole explanation is rather contrived, though. For instance, the bronze serpent you mentioned is an image God commanded to be made, and this same image was looked up to whenever they were stricken by serpants. The Ark of the Covenant was seen by the people on several occasions, such as when it was toted out.

Those two instances alone show that it wasn't so that the common man wouldn't see it. It was a living, breathing part of ancient Judaism. That they were destroyed also indicates that there was a limitation on how we should treat them.
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