If You Didn't Design Yourself, You Don't Have Free Will

[CarlinKnew]

If a separate entity, such as the abrahamic god, designed which actions you are able to perform, then your "free will" is limited, and thus, not free.

[BucephalusBB]

Originally Posted by CarlinKnew

If a separate entity, such as the abrahamic god, designed which actions you are able to perform, then your "free will" is limited, and thus, not free.

limited in what?

[CarlinKnew]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Ball

limited in what?

It's imprisoned by the existence that has been created for you. If it was "free" you could choose to perform any action you want.

[BucephalusBB]

Originally Posted by CarlinKnew

It's imprisoned by the existence that has been created for you. If it was "free" you could choose to perform any action you want.

Not is the will is completelly free yet the body it is stuck in isn't..

Edit: my free will might be able to make me fly, but gravity won't let me. Doesn't mean that the free will itself is limited.

[Kilgore Trout]

oh you think your smarter then god isee? weare not more smart then god so if you try too undrestand god is imposable! i have frewill becuz i can make choises this is just comin sence!!

[CarlinKnew]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Ball

Not is the will is completelly free yet the body it is stuck in isn't..

Edit: my free will might be able to make me fly, but gravity won't let me. Doesn't mean that the free will itself is limited.

What do you mean "might be able to"? Either it can or it can't. It can't.

[BucephalusBB]

Originally Posted by CarlinKnew

What do you mean "might be able to"? Either it can or it can't. It can't.

Pff tried hard to think of an example and couldn't find a good one, so I'll give you a lazy version instead.

Take a computer with windows installed. Now you want to make a screenshot from yourself for the forum. But you have no camera! Your computer is not capable of making a picture for you because it's restricted by not having a camera attached.

However, I can asure you that the operatingsystem is perfectly capable of making the shot if the computer was not "restricted".

Free will is perfectly capable of bringing you up, gravity is your restriction.

[CarlinKnew]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Ball

Pff tried hard to think of an example and couldn't find a good one, so I'll give you a lazy version instead.

Take a computer with windows installed. Now you want to make a screenshot from yourself for the forum. But you have no camera! Your computer is not capable of making a picture for you because it's restricted by not having a camera attached.

However, I can asure you that the operatingsystem is perfectly capable of making the shot if the computer was not "restricted".

Exactly. Restricted. Not free.

Originally Posted by Bouncing Ball

Free will is perfectly capable of bringing you up, gravity is your restriction.

If I had free will, I would have no external restrictions. That is, restrictions placed upon me by a separate entity.

[BucephalusBB]

Originally Posted by CarlinKnew

Exactly. Restricted. Not free.

By the computer, not by itself.
If this is only about the exterior influences giving restriction, I am sure almost all of us will agree with you..

[Just_me_Mike]

Originally Posted by CarlinKnew

If a separate entity, such as the abrahamic god, designed which actions you are able to perform, then your "free will" is limited, and thus, not free.

You need to be more specific, because by bringing in the Abrahamic God, you are hurting you position.

It is clear that Pharaoh had NO CHOICE whatsoever when Moses was exiting. In fact God completely took over Pharaoh will and made Pharaoh go after Moses.

This alone tells us the bible does not teach free will. In fact it is only a man made doctrine based of the line "if you believe you will be saved". It is that type of language that people have developed the idea of free will in abrahamic religions.

So try the arguement with other gods.