Does man have free will? (Earth, choice, scriptures, Israel)

[best friend]

Originally Posted by Colin_Admin

I understand that he can see everything but if he can see what happens in the future then isnt that eliminating free will.

Originally Posted by Colin_Admin

I am still fuzzy on this point because from what it looks like to me is that you dont have free will.

When we talk about divine destiny we are talking about an unseen subject.so no wonder that we can hardly agree with a certain concept.

but to clarify my point, I believe there is no contradiction between the reality-or let me say assumption- that god pre-records our actions and the other reality that man has afree will.

for example we humans can anticipate the weather conditions in the future,and i for example can strongly believe that if i asked for help or assistance from a certain friend he will do it for me,also it is said that animals can feel earthquakes before it acctually happens.

since humans and other creations who both have limited powers can successfully do these anticipations (some is made by instinct others by logic or science).

then no wonder that the creator whom is supposed to have the absolute power can undoubtedly know what we are going to do in the future. and again without intruding our free will.

n.b. As I mentioned in my previous reply, those 7 point were a summary of an article. i would recommend u to view it for a broader view. The link once again is
http://www.fethullahgulen.org/essentials/pg20.html#b

[ErikaLee]

This is a topic that has confused me since I was a child.

I was taught in the Christian Church that everything that will be done from now to eternity was written as soon as the universe was created. That never sat well with me.

If it is already written down (putting God aside) that I will drink orange juice instead of milk this morning, is that really a choice? To me it is not. But my husband says it is still a choice. (I love to debate with him, he's the logical to my emotional, he's brilliant and fun)

Luckily tho, for me, I don't believe in God or Fate or Destiny, so the idea that boggled me from the age of 8 no longer confuses me, I threw it out.

As far as peer pressure and society is concerned, of course! You can always say NO, just get up the courage to do it just be aware of the consequences.

Have that dern glass of wine man! Who cares?

So you know, I've been myself and proud since I was 15 - I only compromise myself for my parents... that's as it should be. Take a deep breath and jump off into the deep end! The water is nice.

EL

[deahca2]

still can't agree that G-d "pre-recorded" unless He "pre-recorded" all situations, all chaos factors thrown in, all possible solutions and actions. Then it could be "pre-recorded" I suppose and still leave the free will intact.

[Truthseeker]

This is in direct repsonse to Runt:

Second, we are not on this earth to learn to ignore the Ego! We are spiritual beings who were once completely immersed in God who are having a temporary physical experience before returning to God. Life is a brief escape from that vast pool of all knowing Consciousness (“God”). We were put on this world to live life, not to try to escape from it! We will only be here a short time before we return to God. Enjoy the time you have! It IS an experience! Become deeply immersed in your interests and develop your talents. Enjoy your emotions, allow yourself to feel them, but do not let them control you (you also have a mind for a reason). When you join God you will not experience these emotions, so enjoy them while you can. Love, passion, hate, anger are among the greatest diversions of all. How much more immersed in your life can you become than when you are at the peak of an emotion?

I can't describe the way I felt when I read this post I really couldn't - why I don't know but I want to break your post down to parts. In the first line you said we are not here to ignore the ego. Well that is very true indeed what we should do is recognise it for what it is - THE ROOT CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S SUFFERING THE DESIRE TO RECEIVE FOR OURSLEVES!!! [B]I wan't everyone on this forum to think about that for a minute. Really think about it. Wars, Murder, Corruption, The Mafia, poverty, child abuse, crime ect ect are all as a result of the desire to recieve pleasure for ourselves. When mankind tries to look for solutions to these problems they turn to the politicians who have delivered humanity - well sweet nothing! Humanity has seemingly lost all direction and doesn't know where the hell to turn in order to turn the situation around[/b]. We are constantly making mistakes and yet we do not realise that the root cause of all our problems is essentially right under our noses. The second point I want to take up is this "We were put on this earth to live life not to try and escape it!" What we where put on this Earth do is to want to overcome the selfishness we find in ourselves in order that we can cross into the spiritual world whilst still living in this world. This is not giving up on life this is creating the edifice of your own eternity ! If you follow your ego it will lead you to your grave and you will have achieved absolutely nothing. It will have robbed you.

[best friend]

hello every body ,

I am gratefull to "deahca2" and i would like to thank her because she was the one who told me about this site.

I saw her talking about it on one of yahoo's chatting rooms, i asked her for the link and she gave it to me. did u remember deahca2 ?

Any way i have a question to u out of curousity. why do u always write "g-d" rather than "god" ?!

Thanks once again

[THE_CRITIC]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Now on the subject of free will let me give you a practical example. The Rabash - a great kabbalist said: That if he had his way he would have spent the whole day in pyjamas. The only reason why he didn't was because it would not have been condoned by society

i would say rebelians wear whatever they like, they dont care about others opinion.

also

Let me give you an example from my own experience. When I am out for a drink with my friends I would be very happy to have a glass of wine but knowing the reaction I will get off some of my friends (Basically it isn't considered macho to have a glass of wine.) I will settle for a pint like the rest of them

many guys would have drunk whatever they like.

finally

Now to all those people that have free will - and I am challenging the bravest amongst you - I wan't to know the next time a similar situation to the one I have given you happens to you and when it does (And it inevitably will!) then come back to me and tell me you have free will.

i think i answered that.

[Runt]

THE ROOT CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S SUFFERING THE DESIRE TO RECEIVE FOR OURSLEVES!!!

This is why we must practice temperance (but not abstinence). We must realize that there is a difference between enjoying our lives at all costs and enjoying our lives in such a way that we do not ruin the physical experience for any other individuals! I am not saying we should go out and do WHATEVER we want to bring ourselves pleasure; I am saying we must enjoy the physical experience with responsibility!

[Colin_Admin]

Originally Posted by best friend

for example we humans can anticipate the weather conditions in the future,and i for example can strongly believe that if i asked for help or assistance from a certain friend he will do it for me,also it is said that animals can feel earthquakes before it acctually happens.

I dont see the correlation between Gods pre-recording and humans being able to predict the weather. When we try to predict the weather we are just making a guess by looking at the way the weather is before it reaches the given point we are looking at. The point about asking your friend if he will help you is an assumption that he will, and this is not the same as God having foresight. Its not the same because you are making a guess that he will help. Guessing is not having the ability of foresight. About the animals being able to detect earthquakes before they happens is because of their sensory abilities and they are not detecting the earthquake before it happens but rather feeling the shock waves before humans. They are more acute then humans.

Maybe could you be more specific on your descriptions or give different ones because I am still unclear of your proof of free will.

[deahca2]

I've been following Runt's and Truthseekers debate with glee. Such valid and wonderful points on both sides. thanx you two.

about G-d. I'm Jewish, that is one reason. We revere G-d totally ( well , I'll amend that to say some of us, LOL). You see I don't want to mess up typing G-d. I'm a crappy typist. I doubt that G-d would mind , if I did, but, I would very much.
deah

[Runt]

LMAO Deah! You're very welcome! I find us entertaining as well... this site gives me something to do during Comparative Religion other than simple, boring old "research".