It's time for a Crusade (Jesus, mystic, salvation, beliefs)

[martha dodge]

Christianity is facing a crisis in the U.S because it has evolved. The crisis is the chagrin of many liberals. Many Christians now realize that our precious beliefs are written in stone, The Cornerstone. And they were never meant to change.

[quick]

Originally Posted by LCMS Sprecher

Perhaps a Crusade is in order for Christianity. Not a crusade by the sword, but one by the use of the Holy Word. I believe that Christianity has roled over and died in this time of false teachings and attempts to destroy her. We as Christians now flinch before the tides of false doctrine and teaching. We have the Episcopal church condoning gay Bishops. A Catholic church that is engulfed in a priest-sodomy scandle that questions its celibacy laws. At the same time, the Catholic church throws off its original conservative stand on the Bible. In every every denomination (including my own) showmanship and crowd-pleasing power has overpowered the true Gospel in an attempt to win membership. Christian denominations are falling in front of Atheistic movements that question the validity of the Gospel. We must set ourselves straight and recognize God's true Word and adher to those laws. We must defend ourselves against the Church's great many enemies that seeks to destroy the Church with doubt.

Very well said. Paul has told us what weapons we need for our spiritual war, and they are as follows:



Ephesians 6

The Armor of God

10 Finally, (19) be strong in the Lord and in (20) the strength of His might.
11 (21) Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the (22) schemes of the devil.
12 For our (23) struggle is not against (24) flesh and blood, but (25) against the rulers, against the powers, against the (26) world forces of this (27) darkness, against the (28) spiritual forces of wickedness in (29) the heavenly places.
13 Therefore, take up (30) the full armor of God, so that you will be able to (31) resist in (32) the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
14 Stand firm therefore, (33) HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING (34) PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
15 and having (35) shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
16 in addition to all, taking up the (36) shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the (37) flaming arrows of (38) the evil one.
17 And take (39) THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the (40) sword of the Spirit, which is (41) the word of God.
18 With all (42) prayer and petition (43) pray at all times (44) in the Spirit, and with this in view, (45) be on the alert with all (46) perseverance and (47) petition for all the saints,
19 and (48) pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me (49) in the opening of my mouth, to make known with (50) boldness (51) the mystery of the gospel,
20 for which I am an (52) ambassador (53) in chains; that [1] in proclaiming it I may speak (54) boldly, (55) as I ought to speak.
21 (56) But that you also may know about my circumstances, how I am doing, (57) Tychicus, (58) the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, will make everything known to you.
22 (59) I have sent him to you for this very purpose, so that you may know about us, and that he may (60) comfort your hearts.
23 (61) Peace be to the brethren, and (62) love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ with incorruptible love.


This war has been won by Christ on the cross; we are still fighting the battles, and much is yet to come, but the end is not in doubt. Our religion cannot die, as it is the one true religion. Its power in the USA is on the wane, but its remarkable growth in Asia and Africa points to a spirit of great revival in these areas. Is there a more dynamicallly Christian nation anywhere than South Korea?

The one true God cannot lose, and it is in him we find our rest and our strength.

[Ceridwen018]

Aren't Christians supposed to be pacifists? What is all this war talk?

Also, why are you so worried about others? As long as you yourself know what you believe and obey it, why does everyone else have to follow you? I know that the bible calls for you to spread god's word and try to 'convert' people and all, but it also calls for tolerance. To say that 'we should fight the Muslims' is an incredibly bigoted comment. In truth, the Muslims are actually not that different from Christians.

It is not up to you whether Christianity survives or dies out-- it is up to god. If god wants it to survive, then it will, no matter what kind of adversity it may meet. If he wants it to die out, it will, no matter how many people you fight to keep it around. You sound like a Medeivel Catholic, calling for the death of Galileo or the burning of heretics. My advice? Take a chill pill and perhaps analyze your priorities a little.

[Green Gaia]

A crusade? Yep, convert or be killed will win their hearts everytime. :roll:

[quick]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

Aren't Christians supposed to be pacifists? What is all this war talk?

Also, why are you so worried about others? As long as you yourself know what you believe and obey it, why does everyone else have to follow you? I know that the bible calls for you to spread god's word and try to 'convert' people and all, but it also calls for tolerance. To say that 'we should fight the Muslims' is an incredibly bigoted comment. In truth, the Muslims are actually not that different from Christians.

It is not up to you whether Christianity survives or dies out-- it is up to god. If god wants it to survive, then it will, no matter what kind of adversity it may meet. If he wants it to die out, it will, no matter how many people you fight to keep it around. You sound like a Medeivel Catholic, calling for the death of Galileo or the burning of heretics. My advice? Take a chill pill and perhaps analyze your priorities a little.

I do not understand how a non-Christian would know how a Christian is supposed to be or behave.

Muslims are very different from Christians. Unless they accept Christ, they are dead to sin and we are not.

Christianity is not inherently a pacifist religion, although certainly there are Christian pacifists. They usually stub their doctrinal toe, however, over this verse:

Micah 6
8
He has (1) told you, O man, what is good;
And (2) what does the LORD require of you
But to (3) do justice, to (4) love kindness,
And to walk (5) humbly with your God?


How can you do justice without sometimes engaging in combat? How could you have done justice in WWII without killing Hitler and defeating Germany?

The Bible is definitely laid out as spiritual war between God and Satan. My quote from Paul above is dead on as to "spiritual" warfare. Pagans always seek to destroy, both blatantly and subtlely, the community of believers. You are correct that God's will shall prevail, but we are to be his instruments here. However, unlike our Muslim friends, as their armies conquered Africa, Asia minor and parts of Europe in the Middle Ages, no true Christian would ever say "convert or die." Rather, they would say you are already dead to sin--convert or remain dead, and they would not do so at the point of a gun. To do so would reveal that they have missed the entire point of Christianity, i.e. grace through Christ.

[Lightkeeper]

I thought we were following the teachings of Christ i.e. love your enemy, blessed are the meek, blessed are the merciful, blessed are the peacemakers, as you do unto the least of me you do to me, forgiveness, turn the other cheek, etc. These are not words looking for justice or war. This is about peace making.

[Ceridwen018]

quick,

I do not understand how a non-Christian would know how a Christian is supposed to be or behave.

I was Christian (Catholic) for the first 16 years of my life. I know just fine.

Muslims are very different from Christians. Unless they accept Christ, they are dead to sin and we are not.

And Muslims would say that you are dead to sin and they are not unless you accept Allah. You see? The similarities are coming out already! Seriously though, I'm talking about doctrine here. The basic moral principles of Christianity could be interchangable with the basic moral principles of Islam.

Pagans always seek to destroy, both blatantly and subtlely, the community of believers.

Whereas you seek to destroy the community of pagans. What's the difference?

no true Christian would ever say "convert or die."

I can't say that there are many 'true Christians' then. What about all of the persecutuion and burnings of heretics and 'witches'?

Christianity is not inherently a pacifist religion, although certainly there are Christian pacifists.

Why then, were the first Christians extreme pacifists? It wasn't until the time of Copnstantine that the idea of 'holy war' came into effect. Jesus said 'love thy neighbor', not 'kill him if he offends you'.

How can you do justice without sometimes engaging in combat? How could you have done justice in WWII without killing Hitler and defeating Germany?

It's not your job to do justice. It's god's job. I'm not saying that we should not have gone to war against Hitler, I absolutely agree that we should have, but that would be coming from a secular perspective. Religiously, unless we were in total self defense, we should not have gone to war.

[painted wolf]

:roll:

***Friendly Mod Edit***

One of the forum rules is no short meaningless posts.

[quick]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

quick,

I was Christian (Catholic) for the first 16 years of my life. I know just fine.

And Muslims would say that you are dead to sin and they are not unless you accept Allah. You see? The similarities are coming out already! Seriously though, I'm talking about doctrine here. The basic moral principles of Christianity could be interchangable with the basic moral principles of Islam.

Whereas you seek to destroy the community of pagans. What's the difference?

I can't say that there are many 'true Christians' then. What about all of the persecutuion and burnings of heretics and 'witches'?

Why then, were the first Christians extreme pacifists? It wasn't until the time of Copnstantine that the idea of 'holy war' came into effect. Jesus said 'love thy neighbor', not 'kill him if he offends you'.

It's not your job to do justice. It's god's job. I'm not saying that we should not have gone to war against Hitler, I absolutely agree that we should have, but that would be coming from a secular perspective. Religiously, unless we were in total self defense, we should not have gone to war.

To answer you well, I would need to place my answer in the debate section. Let me just say that your understanding of Biblical doctrine is very flawed, in my opinion, and you did not read my post very well.

[harold e. rice]

Originally Posted by martha dodge

Christianity is facing a crisis in the U.S because it has evolved. The crisis is the chagrin of many liberals. Many Christians now realize that our precious beliefs are written in stone, The Cornerstone. And they were never meant to change.

The crisis that Christianity is facing is called enlightenment.
Science, astronomy, archeology, mythology, and world history have shown that many of the ideas and beliefs we were taught throughout the years based on the bible were wrong.

People are searching for real truth.