"Choosing" to Go to Hell (punishment, choice, atheist)

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by Ronald

I knew that, Mr_Spinkles, my post was for God fearers.

Make sure you don't immulate, Mr_Spinkles!

Set fire to him? No, I don't think anyone is planning to, but thanks for the reminder.

Or did you mean emulate?

" People who choose not to believe in the existence of the Invisible Pink Unicorn have made their choice, and with a heavy heart, she will respect their decision."

Not everyone who is a theist thinks that their version of divinity asks others to believe/ convert to them.

[Mr Spinkles]

Originally Posted by No*s

Hell is punishment

Originally Posted by No*s

It also means that it's not a matter of choice, per se, that God is threatening unbelievers lest he smite them, but simply a statement of nature. God simply is. We believe that we've received (obviously, from revelation) a way to change how we relate to it like as we change our relationship to fire.

Putting aside, for the moment, how in the world a fire can be said to "punish" anyone, I think we agree that this is not a free choice.

My point in the original post, No*s, was that belief in [X] is required before one can decide whether or not to obey [X] or whether or not to freely choose to love [X]. Nonbelievers cannot be classified as loyal, disloyal, loving or hateful towards [X].

Try replacing the word "God" in your last post with "the Invisible Pink Unicorn". Do you think it would make sense for the Invisible Pink Unicorn to punish you in the afterlife for not obeying her, when she hadn't even made her existence or wishes known to you? Perhaps more importantly, if an Invisible Pink Unicorn believer told you you would be shoveling the IPU's holy manure for eternity because of your own free choice, would you take that argument seriously? Remember, I'm not attacking all of theism here, just this particular argument.

[skyglass]

[quote=Mr_Spinkles

Still, even thoughI have no reason to believe the Invisible Pink Unicorn exists, I go around saying she does, just in case. After all, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by believing in her! [/QUOTE]

I have no reason to believe that the Invisible Pink Unicorn exists, but I do have reason to believe that God exist.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ronald

I knew that, Mr_Spinkles, my post was for God fearers.

Make sure you don't immulate, Mr_Spinkles!

Mr_Spinkles is not alone in her holiness's stable. There is a "rightness" in numbers.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Mr_Spinkles

Putting aside, for the moment, how in the world a fire can be said to "punish" anyone, I think we agree that this is not a free choice.

My point in the original post, No*s, was that belief in [X] is required before one can decide whether or not to obey [X] or whether or not to freely choose to love [X]. Nonbelievers cannot be classified as loyal, disloyal, loving or hateful towards [X].

Try replacing the word "God" in your last post with "the Invisible Pink Unicorn". Do you think it would make sense for the Invisible Pink Unicorn to punish you in the afterlife for not obeying her, when she hadn't even made her existence or wishes known to you? Perhaps more importantly, if an Invisible Pink Unicorn believer told you you would be shoveling the IPU's holy manure for eternity because of your own free choice, would you take that argument seriously? Remember, I'm not attacking all of theism here, just this particular argument.

Nope, but then, I can't see a unicorn as invisible and pink .

I apologize for misunderstanding. I thought it was a broad attack on Hell. Instead, it's a deal about God arbitrarily punishing anyone who doesn't believe regardless of revelation. That was a misunderstanding on my part.

While I definately believe in Hell, I don't make it simply a bit of "Agree with us or be punished," so I'll let them make their arguments. Sorry again for the misunderstanding .

[Ronald]

Originally Posted by pah

Mr_Spinkles is not alone in her holiness's stable. There is a "rightness" in numbers.

I seem to remember many times, that Pah finds fault with those who profess a "rightness" in numbers, does this mean Pah is changing sides?

[Ceridwen018]

While I definately believe in Hell, I don't make it simply a bit of "Agree with us or be punished,"

What do you make it, No*s? Does your god allow people into heaven who don't believe in him?

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

What do you make it, No*s? Does your god allow people into heaven who don't believe in him?

The answer to that is "I don't know." I'm not going to guess the fate of other people. I simply affirm that I believe there's a problem, what I believe to be a problem, and that hopes outside of it aren't sanguine. I don't think of it as "punishment" in the sense of "You broke a rule, so you're getting punished unless you do X." Basically, I think of God as Heaven and God as Hell, and I believe Orthodoxy has a solution.

Basically, in the one Spinks specified, "The judge has held me guilty and cast me into prison, simply because I refused a summons. I didn't know there was a summons..." In Orthodoxy it's more like, "I'm lying sick in bed, and I need the doctor with a cure." If one doesn't have the right cure, or get someone who isn't a doctor, the illness will run its natural course. In this case we die and go on unprepared. Spinks' question specifically polls a juridical style punishment like the former. Orthodoxy doesn't teach that.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by No*s

The answer to that is "I don't know." I'm not going to guess the fate of other people. .

No relate the question to you than and tell us if you think what applies to you in the eyes of God applies to others..why or why not?