When is a lie permissable? (beliefs, faith, Commandment, Jewish)

[michel]

Quote 'Christmas & Santa are agents of evil sent by Satan the Devil' reminded me of the thought I had this Christmas about the 'white lie' syndrome that I dislike so intensly. Psychology would have us believe that if we tell a child an untruth, when that child becomes aware that it is an untruth, he will lose faith in what he is told in the future. How far into the 'grey' area can a white lie still be a white lie? do we not deceive ourselves by pretending that the untruth is for the benefit of the recipient, whilst all the time, it is actually for our own benefit?

[SoulTYPE]

In hte eyes of God, never is a lie permissable. Under NO circumstances, (shoud they follow that commandment) is a lie to be spoken, for it is an act of "Satan the liar".

[Mister Emu]

Matt 5:37

But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

[Lintu]

There's a lot about Jewish theology on lying here http://www.mesora.org/lies.html and I'll try to sum it up. Strangely enough, the Jewish theology pretty much matches my own logical thoughts on the topic.

Lying is usually really bad in Judaism because it prevents a person from seeking truth and knowledge. There are a couple of cases where it is okay:

1. To keep the peace (for instance, I can lie to my grandmother about my religious beliefs to keep her from being upset or angry and disrupting the peace of my family). Lying to make someone feel better does not prevent someone from seeking truth and knowledge, so it is acceptable.

2. To prevent harm to yourself or another person.

[The Voice of Reason]

To say that lying is categorically wrong is nonsense.

Hypothetical situation: As the result of a car wreck, a man lies injured in the street. You are the first person to arrive on the scene (by the way - you are a doctor that specializes in traumatic injuries), and as you approach him to see if you can help, it is obvious that he is critically and mortally injured (severed carotid artery). He looks at you and asks if it looks bad. Are you going to tell him that he is dying and will never see his family again, or do you give him the white lie, to reassure him that he will be fine and to "hang in there"?

There are NO absolutes in this world. The world is shades of gray.

TVOR

[xander-]

I belive, as many, that the ultimate god is truth. In the case that TVOR put out, i would just say "hang in there". I woulden't say: "You are gonna make it", unless i was sure. I could say "IF you hang in there, you might make it". In the case that he had a familie, i think if you told him he was going to die, he would tell you to pass on to his familie something like: "Tell them i love them". But you can't really tell what the right answear could be. I mean, to some degree, there are chances(some people call these miracels) that he will somehow survive. But in conclusion: Never lie, never bend the thruth, never leave the bad stuff out, never tell us what we want to hear, but tell us whats going on, and we will filter the rest out.

-Xander

[pensive]

Originally Posted by The Voice of Reason

Hypothetical situation: As the result of a car wreck, a man lies injured in the street. You are the first person to arrive on the scene (by the way - you are a doctor that specializes in traumatic injuries), and as you approach him to see if you can help, it is obvious that he is critically and mortally injured (severed carotid artery). He looks at you and asks if it looks bad. Are you going to tell him that he is dying and will never see his family again, or do you give him the white lie, to reassure him that he will be fine and to "hang in there"?

Actually, from what I understand of professional ethics in the medical field, telling an individual they're going to be okay when it's clear that they are dying and there is no way to stop it would be a huge no-no. Not answering the question at all might be acceptable, but giving the patient a false impression that they are not dying would land such a doctor in hot water.

[The Voice of Reason]

Okay - I'll make it easier for you with hypothetical situation number 2:
Your 90 year old grandmother is riddled with cancer, and will almost certainly not be around next year. Christmas morning, you open her gift to you - and pull out a hot pink sweater, with green stripes, yellow stars, and purple dots on it. It's three sizes too small, and it has holes in it. It sucks. You hate it. Everyone in the room recognizes that it is a piece of dung.

Now - are you gonna tell this woman (in front of the whole family) that her gift is a horrid, useless piece of trash or are you going to thank her, telling her how much you appreciate it, and exchange it at the first opportunity?

At the very least, be honest with yourself when you formulate your answer. Unless your closet is full of such items, don't waste your time telling me how you will cherish her last gift to you, and it will have sentimental value.

Thanks,
TVOR

[Ceridwen018]

I think that little white lies, such as those that TVOR is suggesting, are necessary on the basis of tact. Sometimes the truth can do more harm than good in little situations like those, and sometimes it's even considered rude and base to tell the blatant truth.

[SoulTYPE]

I agree that lies are not wrong. However, God does not. I guess that is a nother reason I do not follow God