The divine female (Jesus Christ, Messiah, church, bible, worship)

[oracle]

Originally Posted by Isis-Astoroth

My one big problem with christianity is that it seems a patriachal religion.Though the original bible never mentioned God as a 'he', it has been translated so that it does. This had lead so many to see God as a male and not as a non-gender being. From Adam came Eve, and from Eve and Adam came the first sin, the one of disobeying God, but it is Eve that is blamed. Though Mary is regarded fairly high in the Catholic church, others almost seem to forget she exists. Women cannot achieve the highest positions, and it seems that this is based on a system from a time so long ago that it is severely outdated. Women are not longer the subservient ones, they are no longer just 'property'. Christianity lacks the sacred or divine female that appears in many ancient religions. It appears to put the male gender on a much higher pedestal than the female gender. This has brought inequality through to the 21st century. I am not saying that Christianity is false, that it is in someway lying, but what I am saying is that I feel that it has pushed women into a position that the shouldn't have to be in.

One major problem is that so many people take the bible way too literal when in fact, there is a lot of mystical symbolism, and the bible was written with hidden, inner meaning which only few know. The story of Adam and Eve should not be taken literally, but allegorically. The name Elohim, as I have found in my research, translated letter by letter it means "all that is", supposing that God is all and in all without excluding anything. This has been stated in many books that were not canonized. Elohim is the macrocosm, everything that is, is all and within all. Man is a microcosm of the macrocosm, containing both inner (feminine) and outer (masculine) faculties. This is what it means in Genesis 1:27“So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” the same word being used for man in this passage is the same word Adam. Adam was created both masculine and feminine. Eve represents the feminine in man, in other words the spiritual and inner psyche. There is no such thing as an original sin. That is a ridiculous misconception. The expulsion from the garden represents the birth of self, like waking from eternal slumber. The spirit is nonentity (the garden), the mind is the self, and the body/ material world an interface and vehicle of expression (Eden) unto which the self experiences life and consequences (good and evil). The self is an excursion from the nonentity to a point of differentiation. When self dies it returns to nonentity, to the all; to the garden. Anyways the Divine feminine denotes our inner, spiritual nature, and the spiritual totality of existence. There is a major interplay of symbolism between the masculine and feminine, masculine denoting our outer, physical, and materialistic manifestation which is illusive. For example, this includes symbols such as bread and wine, body and blood, flesh and spirit, the kingdom of the beast and the kingdom of heaven. The reason why is has been symbolized with gender is because one is receptive and subtle while the other is projective and active, although it has nothing to do with gender.

[johnnys4life]

Originally Posted by oracle

One major problem is that so many people take the bible way too literal when in fact, there is a lot of mystical symbolism, and the bible was written with hidden, inner meaning which only few know. The story of Adam and Eve should not be taken literally, but allegorically. The name Elohim, as I have found in my research, translated letter by letter it means "all that is", supposing that God is all and in all without excluding anything. This has been stated in many books that were not canonized. Elohim is the macrocosm, everything that is, is all and within all. Man is a microcosm of the macrocosm, containing both inner (feminine) and outer (masculine) faculties. This is what it means in Genesis 1:27“So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” the same word being used for man in this passage is the same word Adam. Adam was created both masculine and feminine. Eve represents the feminine in man, in other words the spiritual and inner psyche. There is no such thing as an original sin. That is a ridiculous misconception. The expulsion from the garden represents the birth of self, like waking from eternal slumber. The spirit is nonentity (the garden), the mind is the self, and the body/ material world an interface and vehicle of expression (Eden) unto which the self experiences life and consequences (good and evil). The self is an excursion from the nonentity to a point of differentiation. When self dies it returns to nonentity, to the all; to the garden. Anyways the Divine feminine denotes our inner, spiritual nature, and the spiritual totality of existence. There is a major interplay of symbolism between the masculine and feminine, masculine denoting our outer, physical, and materialistic manifestation which is illusive. For example, this includes symbols such as bread and wine, body and blood, flesh and spirit, the kingdom of the beast and the kingdom of heaven. The reason why is has been symbolized with gender is because one is receptive and subtle while the other is projective and active, although it has nothing to do with gender.

That is an interesting interpretation. But it is just your opinion, and I doubt the majority of Christians would take that approach. As for the word Elohim, it depends on where you look it up. God does say "let us create man in OUR image" emphasis added, but most people consider that to mean the trinity, if they are Christian at least. I can't remember what Jews think, I will have to look that up again, you may very well be right. God does say that he is ALL IN ALL, so I guess you could say that God is everything that is.

However I don't know where in the world you are getting the fall as being symbolic from. That sounds to me like a personal opinion, but if I am wrong please let me know.

[hoomer]

Originally Posted by johnnys4life

No I don't believe it because you probably got it out of a textbook written by some liberals who wanted history to say something entirely different than what it did. They are famous for claiming that we Christians are "hiding" the true past.

Yes you did go on and on about how the Christian God was just a version of other "gods" and how even Jesus was a version of some female deity.

That is very funny I will have to go back to my Bible study teachers and tell them that I am ignorant of Judaism so I can go through all those classes again. You may be right. I was always told that the Shekinah was the divine light or "glory" surrounding God. No one could look directly at Him and live. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and please site your source. I would really like to know what your interpretation of it is, and I mean that in the nicest way possible, I am really interested.

pease tell me where I referred to versins please..do tel please point it out? Liberals....lol whats to hide christianity has a great past....just ask the nat americans...!!!!

the SHekinah is a SHE.....I have listed some places..pasted soem websites.....
if you want actual books there are too numerous....there was no 1 book...I read MANY.....God is my all...I dont limit my studies to the bible!

here's 2 however.....off the top of my head that I can remeber.....
The Holy Kabbalah by Artheu Edward Waite
SOPHIA: Goddess of Wisdom, Bride of God by caitlin Matthews

now I dont expect you to take any of my ideas into consideration...after al I'm just a liberal...who doesn't belive Christ taught GREED!...but thats politics.....different matter...

I'm fuy prepared to admit I am wrong always......but I know who the Shekinah is thought to be....SHe was the dove



Shechinah

According to Jewish tradition the radiance of the Shechinah, with its untold blessings, "rests" upon all those who are pious and righteous. According to ancient Rabbis the Shekinah appears in the midst of at least a minyan of worshipers when they pray in congregation, and of two or more Jews when they engage in the study of Torah, or on a man when he recites the Shema. The Shekinah is said also to rest upon the chaste, the benevolent, and the hospitable, and upon husband and wife when they live in peace and harmony. The ancient Rabbis also said that the Shekinah appeared before Moses at the burning bush, rested upon the Tabernacle in the Wilderness on the day of its dedication, and in the holy of holies in the Temple at Jerusalem, and it has illuminated the bliss of the righteous (Heb. tzaddikim) in the world-to-come ever since.

The Talmudic Sages conceived of the Shekinah as a spiritual essence of indescribable beauty and exalting effect. It was generally spoken of as brilliant light or radiance and when it approached it was announced by a tinkling sound of like an ethereal bell. One interesting Jewish legend even described the dying Moses as being lovingly enfolded in the "wings" of the Shekinah.

It is said that, "Wherever the Jewish people go the Shechinah follows."

Bat Kol

It is interesting to examine the tradition of the Bat Kol which was the voice of God that proclaimed His will and intention, His judgments and His promises, His warnings and His commands to various people, communities, and sometimes to all of Israel. Jewish tradition always spoke of the Bat Kol. When the Torah was given at Sinai the Bible says,

Deut 4:12 "And the LORD spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice."

The Bat Kal mysteriously sounded at extraordinary times and this was mentioned in Jewish tradition. For example there is one account that indicates that at the very instant when God took away the soul of Moses with a kiss, the bat Kal rang out over the Israelite camp with the lament, "Moses is dead! Moses is dead!" It also is recognized to have given warnings or passed judgement upon evildoers as recorded in the book of Daniel:

Dan 4:28-32 At the end of the twelve months King Nebuchadnezzar was walking about the royal palace of Babylon. The king spoke, saying, "Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for a royal dwelling by my mighty power and for the honor of my majesty?" While the word was still in the king's mouth, a voice fell from heaven: "King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken: the kingdom has departed from you! And they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. They shall make you eat grass like oxen; and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses."

The Bat Kol was said to have been heard by the Rabbinic Sages when they had very important decisions to make. The Talmud makes mention that at various times a Bat Kol wound make an announcement during the great assembly known as the Sanhedrin.

There are many instances in the New Testament of the Bat Kol with Jesus and His apostles. John the apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation said:

Rev 1:10-18 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea." Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. . . And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

The Bat Kol is represented in Jewish tradition by the symbol of the dove.




Shekinah


A Biography of The Shekinah by Soror Shekinah

The Shekinah is the only aspect of the Western Monotheistic Diety which is feminine. She is an aspect of Elohim, Yahweh, the God of the Jews, Christians and Moslems. Although the later incarnations of the religion under the Christians and Moslems do not incorporate the Shekinah as a female, she none the less has been and continues to be the heart and soul of the Sabbath of the Jews and the Kabbalah of both the Jews and the Magicians. Much is written about her and she is often misunderstood by Modern Esoteric Magicians. So I decided to write her story. Here then is the history, development and life of the Shekinah.
http://www.adelaidegrid.warp0.com/photo2.html

[hoomer]

see also:
http://shekinah.elysiumgates.com/
http://northernway.org/shekinah.html
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...d=588&letter=S
http://www.kheper.net/essays/Divinisation_of_Matter.htm
http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/shekinah.htm

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by oracle

One major problem is that so many people take the bible way too literal when in fact, there is a lot of mystical symbolism, and the bible was written with hidden, inner meaning which only few know. The story of Adam and Eve should not be taken literally, but allegorically. The name Elohim, as I have found in my research, translated letter by letter it means "all that is", supposing that God is all and in all without excluding anything. This has been stated in many books that were not canonized. Elohim is the macrocosm, everything that is, is all and within all. Man is a microcosm of the macrocosm, containing both inner (feminine) and outer (masculine) faculties. This is what it means in Genesis 1:27“So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” the same word being used for man in this passage is the same word Adam. Adam was created both masculine and feminine. Eve represents the feminine in man, in other words the spiritual and inner psyche. There is no such thing as an original sin. That is a ridiculous misconception. The expulsion from the garden represents the birth of self, like waking from eternal slumber. The spirit is nonentity (the garden), the mind is the self, and the body/ material world an interface and vehicle of expression (Eden) unto which the self experiences life and consequences (good and evil). The self is an excursion from the nonentity to a point of differentiation. When self dies it returns to nonentity, to the all; to the garden. Anyways the Divine feminine denotes our inner, spiritual nature, and the spiritual totality of existence. There is a major interplay of symbolism between the masculine and feminine, masculine denoting our outer, physical, and materialistic manifestation which is illusive. For example, this includes symbols such as bread and wine, body and blood, flesh and spirit, the kingdom of the beast and the kingdom of heaven. The reason why is has been symbolized with gender is because one is receptive and subtle while the other is projective and active, although it has nothing to do with gender.

Wow. I am not sure where you got this, but I am not sure that I would call it allegory. It looks more like a metaphor for a theological model. I agree that the story of Adam and Eve is a theological explanation for why the world is not a paradise. The whole point of the story is much simpler than the interpretation that you present. God created, humans sinned, and God promises redemption. God is not part of creation, but above it. He is powerful and judges sin. Humans were ejected from paradise, and will be redeemed together (man has a role in salvation, and so does woman - Jesus and Mary). Male and female are never independent, even when Jesus comes into the world.

I enjoyed your metaphor, but it really only makes sense within a psyshoanalytical framework. I am sure that the authors or early readers would have no clue as to what your point is.

I agree think that Adam and Eve never existed as in the story. I think that is obvious from their names "Dirt" and "Beginning" as well as logical analysis of the story itself. I approach it as a story of the collective fall of humans from how God intended them to be, the effects of sin on the world, and the promise of redemption.

[hoomer]

I dont htink there's any ONE right way to see Adam and Eve...

In fact am sure have read the Bible can be interpretted in about 30 different ways...each and every word.....which is a "probem"

"we dont see things as they are, but as we are" ---some mystic that i FORGET

[oracle]

The fact is, is that the story of Adam and Eve has a significant spiritual meaning. There are numerous ways of interpreting, and this is based on the perception of individuals. However, to believe in the story as literal events which did happened, is for the carnal minded and the materialistic. It is a clothing concealing inner truth. Even the traditional Jewish Orthodoxy teaches so. If they were meant to be secular narratives, they would have written more attractive narratives. It has been wrongly interpreted, and such has caused society to condemn women for centuries.

[oracle]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Wow. I am not sure where you got this, but I am not sure that I would call it allegory. It looks more like a metaphor for a theological model. I agree that the story of Adam and Eve is a theological explanation for why the world is not a paradise. The whole point of the story is much simpler than the interpretation that you present. God created, humans sinned, and God promises redemption. God is not part of creation, but above it. He is powerful and judges sin. Humans were ejected from paradise, and will be redeemed together (man has a role in salvation, and so does woman - Jesus and Mary). Male and female are never independent, even when Jesus comes into the world.

I enjoyed your metaphor, but it really only makes sense within a psyshoanalytical framework. I am sure that the authors or early readers would have no clue as to what your point is.

I agree think that Adam and Eve never existed as in the story. I think that is obvious from their names "Dirt" and "Beginning" as well as logical analysis of the story itself. I approach it as a story of the collective fall of humans from how God intended them to be, the effects of sin on the world, and the promise of redemption.

I have spent a lot of research on this one subject in the past couple of years and it's not as simplistic as you propose. The only "fall" that occured was your birth, and the only redemption is ego-death. God is a part of the creation, in fact he is all that exists without excluding anything. God is infinity, without form and structure, and this is projected through temporal continuity throughout creation, and thus God is both beginning and end. The garden represents a unified state of consciousness, expulsion is the temporal seperation from this unified state (the "original sin" which is the birth of your own seperate consciousness, birth of self) in which mankind later becomes re-united after ego-death (this is the "redemption") . The Torah defines different types of sin. First, there is sin which is simply an inevitable mistake committed out of ignorance. Second, there is trespassing which is sin committed intentionally for egoistic motives. In actuality, believing in original sin is a doctrine of self condemnation and has negetive psychological repercussions. Seperation is a nessacary process. Making a creation sinful and condemning it for that is illogical and makes no sense at all.

[oracle]

Originally Posted by johnnys4life

That is an interesting interpretation. But it is just your opinion, and I doubt the majority of Christians would take that approach. As for the word Elohim, it depends on where you look it up. God does say "let us create man in OUR image" emphasis added, but most people consider that to mean the trinity, if they are Christian at least. I can't remember what Jews think, I will have to look that up again, you may very well be right. God does say that he is ALL IN ALL, so I guess you could say that God is everything that is.

However I don't know where in the world you are getting the fall as being symbolic from. That sounds to me like a personal opinion, but if I am wrong please let me know.

First I was born and raised Christian, but after seeing a lot of hyprocrasy and inconsistency as I grew up in the church, I really don't care what approach the majority of Christians would take. The secrets of the kingdom of heaven (i.e. solid food) were kept from the majority and only given to those spiritually qualified. It's not just my opinion, and it's also from a lot of research. The threefold nature of man was commonly known in early Christianity, (was taught by Origen who was an early church father), that being body, mind (or soul), and spirit. In the case which you propose, yes it can mean the trinity, in fact I would say it does, but it is also represented as being twofold, with the mind in bewteen two dual natures, that which is the flesh and the spirit. The "trinity" is a hidden pattern throughout the bible, for example the three temptations of Jesus have more symbolical and spiritual significance than Chrisitian realize, and I pity the fact that few christians know the underlying meaning, that the three temptations refers to body, mind, and spirit (the Gospel of John has the correct chronological order, Mathew does not). Much of the bible contains allegory which should never be interpreted as being literal. Because of this, much damage has been inflicted, and the institutionalized modern christianity of today resembles nothing like the mystical christianity in it's orginal form. It relied on much symbolism to keep truth hidden from the carnally minded because they were considered as unworthy of knowing the truth.
It was the pharisees, the sadacees, and the priests of Jesus's time who believed that the Torah was completely literal, (hiding the keys of knowledge), who were legalistic and carnally minded, thinking about laws which are external which mean nothing in God's eyes. We have much of the same people in these modern times. I do not worship God is flesh, I worship God in spirit. The people are the church, not built of wood or stone, and God is immanent, which manifests itself in all things, is within and existant in everything, God is this unified connection, God is wholeness and such is the kingdom of heaven. To believe in a literal garden is superficial knowing of what it truely means, you are only touching the surface, but underneath the surface is a depth that makes such superficial understanding rediculously obsolete.

[hoomer]

I think the fall has a lot to do with the idea of a cycle....Kabbalistic "legend" takes the view that:
The universe was created from the "ashes" of an older previous universe. This is not unlike the Buddhist view of the universe. In fact there is curently a brand new theory in physics that states te Big Bang model is WRONG.....and that the universe has always existed...and merely is a cycle of creation and destruction....just like the kabbalist/buddhist model......

How the fall relates to this....well the fall is the begginning of a cycle......we begin "perfect"....we "fall" and we "return to perfection"......or we are "better" we "become worse" we return "to better".....now personally I take the view that the return means that the "better" is even better...humanity would become essentially even more evolved.....

Here we can see that again with the divine trinity....

father mother son
creator destroyer redeemer

yes calling women destroyers may seem sexist...but its merely a polarity issue....up and down...left and right...creator destroyer.....

(ah now I see where the comparison to other gods came from....when I mentioned YHVH......
feel free to think "your God" came from Isolation...the fact is God has many names and will appear to many throughout al time...but I'm not gonna get into this one...you're clearly ignorant)

we see this in kabbalism when we even see the pre and after fall tree of lives (or perfected and imperfected trees).....