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#41
02-04-2005, 08:43 AM
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Well I can't remember who it was now, but whoever said that only EVE was "blamed" for the fall, was utterly wrong. Both the Old and New Testament blame Adam for the fall, the old testament blames Eve as well, but only one line in the new testament blames Eve, while all the rest talk about sin coming through Adam.
In fact, both Adam and Eve were cursed by God in the garden. Eve was cursed with pain during labor, Adam was cursed with having to work and toil and eat dust all of his days. So they BOTH sinned, and they were both also to blame. The snake was also cursed. We can only assume that before that time, snakes did not slither on their bellies, and afterwards, they did. But the fact of God being male or female is irrelevant. I've heard the argument that God should be female because he is the creator, and women are creators. Well that is simply too one-sided. A woman cannot create without the man contributing a little something, so it all comes down to a case of which came first, the sperm or the egg. That is just silly. And I say, who cares. All throughout history there have been plenty of religions in which women were treated as property, and it mattered little whether they had male or female gods, or both. It had more to do with the culture of the times. But look at today. Many countries which are predominantly Christian treat women as equals, so how can you say that Christians are holding them back, when Christians are the majority? It is true that throughout our scriptures God revealed himself as the Father, not the mother, and Jesus was the son. Why he did that probably had a multitude of reasons. I do not claim to know them all, but I'm sure I can guess some. Remember that God calls the church (us) SHE, that she is to be Christ's holy bride. Now the church is to look up to God, just as a woman is to look up to her husband, but also, he is to be WORTHY of it. He is to love his wife and lay down his life for her, just as Jesus did. It's a beautiful allegory. And that's the way God set it up.
__________________
Proud mommy to Grace Meriah (3) and Rachel Victoria (1) and "with child" again! 
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#42
02-04-2005, 09:23 AM
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and yeah God is male AND female....it takes 2 to tango...but good points about the fall Persnally I see the whole fall froma different perspective...and largely symbollic....but also literal as well.....as have alluded to about YHVH....my view also involves inter species sex too.....lol..but thats a nother thread  "never forget you're unique, just like everyone else...." Last edited by hoomer; 02-04-2005 at 10:21 AM.
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#43
02-04-2005, 11:15 AM
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The use of Galatians 3:28 to prove that women and men are equal in all areas of life today is unfortunate. The meaning of the verse is that salvation is for all. "Jew and Greek" means no national distinction; "male nor female", no sexual distinction and "bond or free" no social distinction. To say this verse ends distinctions between the sexes would allpy equally to race as well as economic or social conditions. Remember, that which says too much, says nothing.
prosecutor
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#44
02-04-2005, 11:32 AM
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The divine female
This is another area of comparitive religions that baffles me. Does it matter? We men (says he, filling up his chest) are good at certain things (mostly those that require brute force), whilst women can bear children. Having seen my wife going through two pregnancies, and having been there at the birth, well, you women have my full admiration. I will stick to opening tightly fitting jars......................
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My life is an open book; if you don't like the read, put me back on the shelf ....................
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#45
02-04-2005, 12:08 PM
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 And the egg came first. And your argument still doesn't explain why God is male.If you're going to argue sperm and eggs, your point is undone. Men contribute a tiny packet of haploid DNA. Women contribute the same DNA, plus a big ol' egg that carries all of the cellular machinery necessary for respiration and division, not to mention the womb for nine-1/2 months. If one looks carefully at a good translation of Genesis, one sees that God did not create ex nihilo. God created by bringing order to chaos. He partitioned chaos so that the waters were restrained to above and below, and in the clear space, he created the world, and then further divided (ie - brought order to) the water and the earth. Once chaos was appropriately moderated, life sprang forth from earth in response to God's call. Existence is the result of the balance between order and chaos. Too much of either one and we cannot exist. The Hebrew God of Genesis 1 is order, while the goddess Tiamaat (chaos) is relegated to the nameless. There is the true balance between masculine and feminine - order and chaos - not the sperm and the egg.
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Hate has a reason for everything, but love is unreasonable. - V.R. Ahaefvthe wizdum.net - The Good News of Unitarian UniversalismLast edited by shaktinah; 02-04-2005 at 02:29 PM.
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#46
02-04-2005, 02:56 PM
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[quote=lilithu]More likely, it's because they didn't think that Eve was important enough to mention.
The Serpent was cursed. The ground was cursed. And the Serpent and Eve were punished. God did not curse either Adam or Eve. God did not directly punish Adam. Firstly, last I checked, this isn't a debate forum. Secondly, you're wrong. He punished them all. I already explained how. No, woman cannot create without man. He still has to contribute the sperm. The fact that she nourishes and protects the developing child inside her does not mean she CREATED the child inside her by herself, although a lot of feminists may think so. They can now grow embryos in tubes so that would leave her out all except the egg, now wouldn't it. I already explained why God is male, He is the Father, Mary the mother, Jesus is the Son, and the church is his virgin bride - at least that is one analogy God gave us. Speaking of order and chaos, that is the whole family system for you right there.
__________________
Proud mommy to Grace Meriah (3) and Rachel Victoria (1) and "with child" again!
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#47
02-04-2005, 03:30 PM
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__________________
Hate has a reason for everything, but love is unreasonable. - V.R. Ahaefvthewizdum.net - The Good News of Unitarian Universalism
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#48
02-04-2005, 04:03 PM
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[quote=johnnys4life]
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God is the great GIVER...and a PENIS give..a vagina ACCnomad ACCEPTS (yes I know women go on top too...how gratefuly I know...  )....so GOD as father is polarity......yin and yang...PENIS gives....VAGINA accepts....BUT if one folows the TRUE symbolism...God is an IT....as all things are MALE and FEMALE....... some basic principes of kabbalah: 1 all things are connected 2. everything is dependant upon each other....ike a spiders web..break one strand ..a is affected 3. EVERYTHING is holy/sacred 4. NOTHING IS SUPERIOR to ANYTHING ELSE 5. ALL things are MALE and FEMALE......and can change their emphasis often..and do so God the father Y Mary the mother H Christ the son V Magdelena (consort) H but thats the beauty of such symbolism...there is NO DEFINATIVE CORRECT ANSWER...as the beauty of God is she may be approached in MANY ways
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#49
02-04-2005, 04:07 PM
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http://northernway.org/shekinah.html
Shekinah: The Presence of Divinity by Rev. Mark Raines Sources: 1. Shekhina, from Encyclopedia Mythica 2. Wisdom of Shekinah, by WOW Institute (no longer on line) 3. The Secret of Sabbath From this old link: http://music.acu.edu/www/iawm/pages/sabbath.html [Please email webmistress if you know the correct link] Shekinah - also spelled Shekhina, Shekhinah, Shekina, and Shechina - is known in the Qabalah, an ancient form of Jewish mysticism, as one of the emanations of God and the actual Presence of God. The belief was that one could not see God in Its fullness, but could see the emanation of God, Shekinah. When Moses asked to see God, it was Shekinah that he saw. Shekinah is also the consort, or Bride, of God. As such, she is Mother to us all, just as God is our Father. In earlier times, God was seen as either dwelling in the clouds or in high places like mountains or very high hills. With the construction of the Ark of the Covenant, and then the construction of the Temple, a part of the Godhead came to dwell in the Ark and then in the Temple. This could not be the male God, the God of the Sky and of High Places. So Shekinah, formerly known as Asherah, a Goddess of Earth and Sea, came to dwell in the Ark of the Covenant and then in the Temple. Originally it was Asherah who dwelled in the Temple as the Bride of God, His representative there. But after the "reforms" of King Josiah, Asherah worship was forbidden in the Temple. Still, the Jews knew that their Lady was still living there as their Queen and the representative of El, their God. So Asherah evolved. She began to be seen as the presence of God, and less as a separate entity. She became Shekinah, which means something like She who dwells (from the Hebrew shakhan, which means the act of dwelling). However, Asherah did not really change. She was always the representative of Her Husband, just as He was always HER representative. She, an Earth Goddess, was also Queen of Heaven. He, as Sky God, was also Ruler of Earth. This occurred only through Their marriage. So, it was not really that Asherah worship ever changed much within Judaism, or that Asherah Herself changed; only, it was made to look like it had changed to fool the patriarchal priests. Unfortunately, Shekinah has been all but lost to Christianity. Elements of Her remain in Mother Mary, who was perhaps Shekinah's incarnation. Mary Theotokos, as She is called, actually held the presence of God (Yeshua) within Her. She is known as the Queen of Heaven, but she is the representative of God to us and delivers our prayers to Him, according to Catholic tradition. Her apparitions are much more frequent than the apparitions of Yeshua, and the Father never appears. It seems that She is truly His representative to us, because (as we know) She is His Bride. The union of Shekinah and El was never more evident than in the Sabbath. She is known as the Sabbath Bride, or the Sabbath Queen. Each week on the Sabbath, God and Goddess, El and Shekinah, act out the Song of Songs. One rabbi called that holy book the "Holy of Holies" of the Bible! Now take a look at this passage from the Zohar (the holy book of the Qabalah), called the Secret of the Sabbath, which tells us all about the Sabbath Queen:
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#50
02-04-2005, 04:10 PM
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"Shekinah means "presence of God" and relates to the feminine aspect of the Holy Trinity. It is the energy that sanctifies from within the dimension of matter or the Holy Spirit. Shekinah is the visible manifestation of the divine presence. One place within the Old Testament it appeared as the cloud that followed the children of Isreal in the desert."
Shekinah is spelled several ways but has the same meaning . . . just makes research that more interesting. Hebrew is a beautiful language, which I do not read or speak, with so much spiritual meaning to each of the 22 glyphs. I found the following information in a book, went to the trouble to write it down, but neglected to remember the source. I will find it again one day. However, the following is very interesting:
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