The divine female (Jesus Christ, Messiah, church, bible, worship)

[hoomer]

ooop I wanted to add...
Adam kadomon....

1 is one and all alone....

1 becomes aware of itself//and thusly becomes 2.....

adam K becomes adam and eve....

[hoomer]

Originally Posted by lilithu

In closing, I'd like to slip in a little discussion on the tarot. Hoomer has already mentioned the Tarot and the card "The Lovers" on this thread. I don't think that it's so off-topic, given that there is quite a bit of Christian symbolism contained within the Tarot, "The Heirophant" for example. Anyways, "The Lovers" depicts Adam and Eve.

http://www.childrenofthegravepress.com/the_lovers.htm

In the card, you see an angel (or God?) looking down from heaven. On earth, to the left is Eve, standing in front of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, with the serpent wrapped around it. On the right, you see Adam, standing in front of the tree of life, bearing twelve fruits.

This card depicts a moment that is obviously pre-"Fall." The sun is shining, everyone is happy, and Adam and Eve are clearly not ashamed of their nakedness. But the point in discussing this card is to notice how Adam and Eve are depicted. Eve looks up towards the Divine; Adam looks across towards Eve. Whether the image shows that Eve is more aware of the Divine, or whether it shows simply that she had higher aspirations, I do not know. I do know that meditating (so to speak) on this card caused me to interpret the Adam and Eve story differently than how I was originally taught, way before I learned that alternative interpretations were "allowed."

The fall has more propoganda interw\twined within it than an episode of American Idol....or some other reaity tv show.......
Indeed the tarot contains cristian symbolism..the hierophant is often seen as the pope....

My "teacher" I wish there was a less cheesy term to use....tried to get away from the christianisation f taorot...but thats another story.....such as the depiction of the devil..and the fact death sint female..etc etc,,,,,

The fall is a tricky topic....and I think is a duality thing....

God is father...God is spirit.....therefore Mother isnt God...and mother is physica.therefore women are evil ..and bad as God is good.....this is poarity...good(male..yang) bad(femae..yin)....personaly I beeive this is the root of Misogeny in the western psyche...denial of the divinity of matter......as that which isnt God(the father..spirit...as SPIRIT GIVES and causes....like a penis!) must be "bad"...therefore women must be evil..and eve was a "slut"...etc etc.....of course this is grssly wrong...and a good way to keep women as esser beings...but thats misogeny for you.....

I ike things holisticaly..yin AND yang....like the star of David which is male(good ..upward triange) and female(bad downward trainge)...in fact...I often think of an erect penis and a vagina when I see these 2 symbols (the traingles..of fire and water)

http://www.telisphere.com/~starbird/mandala.html

[huajiro]

Originally Posted by hoomer

Because SEX is not just the act of Coitus..its POlarity....yin and yang....SEX itself is far from JUST a physical act.....

But sex as regards God is about polarity...what I mean is take a magnet it has a positive and a negative end....yin and yang has a male and female end.....these are 2 parts..of 1 whole....dynamic in their energy...yin contains yang..and can both interchange freely.....

This goes for God and man......
The Goal of many relgions is DIVINE UNION with God....to literally becme ONE with God.....
This is ALchemy...a marraige of opposites to form a new whole ...which refines the old to form a new.....a marriage of opposites to form a new whole is called a (AL)CHemical Wedding......we can think of this thusly:

Sperm..+ egg= Zygot

(If you know tarot cards...now as this is a christian discussion I doubt you will.....but we can see the image of divine union with a mediator on the classic "Devil" tarot card....but thats another story...some "the lovers" cards also depict this idea)

or Male energy+ female enegy= God.... this is what tantra and divine or sacred sex is...though one can approach this idea without sacred sex.....

Some say God is beyond gender.....yes...clearly he/she is.....but clearly God is not neuter either..God is androgenous.....as Adam and Eve were originally (an Idea LONG surpessed by the Catholic church...but not fully thankfully)...and remeber Man was created in God's image...androgenous...YIN and YANG...male AND female......

Thus God is SEX....which does not mean God is coitus...but yes God is coitus...but far far more

This is similiar tro what vigil said.....though from my own perspective.....

Personally I think God is beyond concept......
"Those who know do not speak, those that speak do not know"--lao Tzu

Thanks for elaborating....point well taken

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by hoomer

Strictly Speaking the Holy Spirit is FEMALE.....and is Sophia...and the SHekinah of the JEws..I cant be botherd to write an essay..its not hard to find the divine feminine in CHristianty..she's alive and well.....people just hide her.....

The Holy Spirit is wisdom? I'm not disagreeing w/you; I think that's great. But scripturally, he/she/it (my English bible refers to him as he) comes across as having more to do with emotion/will than with intellect.

But I suppose that gaining wisdom would have an emotional effect and resolve the will. And it would explain the miracle of Pentacost.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by hoomer

Actually this is simplified and wrong....if one looks at kabbalah (kabbalah can be viewed thusly "torah is a lamp, kabbalah is the fame upon the amp iluminating the way" --actua jewish teaching) Adam merey means 1st being....upon ANY planet...yes Kabbalists reailsed the universe is infinate......
So adam is a geenric word for 1st being...like John Doe...This is the divine Androgeneous being known to later Kabbalists through the teachings of Isaac Luria(or is it Jacob???) the man known as the Ari......as ADAM KADMON....the divine archtypal man.....

Thus adam becme adam and eve....in a split of polarity....
Originally as I have said aready adam and eve were shown as both mae and female.....as this is the divine state....

This is an expanded version of interpretation number three. I gave three interpretations. I didn't state a value judgment as to which was right or wrong. Personally, I prefer number three, but the first one is the most common one.

Originally Posted by hoomer

as an aside..some traditions see Christ as a reincarnation of Adam Kadmon....(christ is the alpha nad Omega)...then again some traditions beeive Christ was actualy MIchael Incarnate.....which fits in with the symbolism as Christ as a solar being sun=son...but thats another thread

There was a Jesus=Michael thread that was running hot for a while. I'd very interested in what you have to say.

Jesus and Michael - One and the same?

[hoomer]

http://www.cosmicwind.net/800/Cmwl/W...se/EvanQ2.html

WHY HAS MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY IGNORED THE DIVINE FEMININE?

In large part the *basic* reason is faulty translation of their own scriptures. The translators (presumeably with their own already-indoctrinated patriarchal biases) *eliminated* the feminine endings to Wisdom/Hokmah/Sophia -- changing the feminine to male or neuter; they *hid* the fact (or did not *recognize* such by the nature of what *their* teachers taught) that "Elohim" has a feminine ending, in the original (more accurately translated as "The Goddesses" according to some, or "the Sons of Goddess"). It is a similar mistranslation of this nature that calls the Holy Spirit "he" in The Gospel According To John. Sophia is dubbed "workman" instead of "workwoman" (Prov. 8:30, RSV) (which intrinsically reveals the patriarchal bias & the process at work in these translations).

etc........

[anders]

Originally Posted by hoomer

In large part the *basic* reason is faulty translation of their own scriptures. The translators (presumeably with their own already-indoctrinated patriarchal biases) *eliminated* the feminine endings to Wisdom/Hokmah/Sophia -- changing the feminine to male or neuter; they *hid* the fact (or did not *recognize* such by the nature of what *their* teachers taught) that "Elohim" has a feminine ending, in the original (more accurately translated as "The Goddesses" according to some, or "the Sons of Goddess"). It is a similar mistranslation of this nature that calls the Holy Spirit "he" in The Gospel According To John. Sophia is dubbed "workman" instead of "workwoman" (Prov. 8:30, RSV) (which intrinsically reveals the patriarchal bias & the process at work in these translations).

Could you please tell me why you think that the very characteristic masculine plural ending "-im" in Elohim is feminine, and where you find the alleged mistranslations of "wisdom/hokhmah/sophia". Regarding the Holy Spirit (and many other nouns), the grammatical gender has nothing whatsoever to do with the physical gender. A German girl is a Mädchen, which is a neuter noun, but she is still feminine. A Latin poet is a poeta; a feminine noun which is applied to men as well as women. You will find this phenomenon in just about any language that has noun gender.

Sophia is a Greek concept, much later than the OT, and is of course not applicable to Proverbs. Besides, your reference must be wrong. In four languages in five Bibles I find no word in Prov. 8:30 even remotely corresponding to Sophia, or worker of any gender.

[hoomer]

1st it was a quote from a website!

http://www.cosmicwind.net/800/Cmwl/...ose/EvanQ2.html

Sophia is the SHekinah.....in greek...

I am sorry I am not a hebrew or Bibe expert...hence I approach this from a different angle and never mentioned such things MYSELF........

as regards im.....I cannot comment much...again I am not a hebrew expert......I have read people that are however.....I own and have read Arthur Edward Waite's book the holy kabblah"...which is verbose ..yes...and essentialy a commentary on the Zohar.....

Do I base my opinions on ONLY this 1 book...no....far from it....

as regards mascine words and feminie like "im".......isnt the letter He male sounding...lol.....

But anyway sorry cannot comment on scripture...thats not my department.....My gir friend as an essene coud comment...but I cannot.....

Sorry...enjoy worshipping an ALL male divine ness....in which I persnally think is an absurd idea...one which Kabbaah \cearly shows is wrong.....

If one looks at Kabbalah actualy the website is wrong....CHockmah is genrally thought of as MALE...and it is Binah...(understanding) the 3rd emanation that is female....of course the sephirots are androgenous and are of no FIXED gender....but the pilar of severity(of which binah is at the head) is thought to be fenminine......

Sorry I cant quote the bibe like a parrot..I wil eave that to those that seek to be parrots....

[hoomer]

my apologies this
sounds harsh...its a bad week...my apologies....

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by hoomer

my apologies this
sounds harsh...its a bad week...my apologies....

Only the last line sounded harsh to me. You know you can edit your own posts after you post them by following the link towards the top right corner. That's to change anything that you didn't like about it or to make additions. As far as I can tell, people here don't abuse that option.

Hope your week improves.