The divine female (Jesus Christ, Messiah, church, bible, worship)

[hoomer]

Because SEX is not just the act of Coitus..its POlarity....yin and yang....SEX itself is far from JUST a physical act.....

But sex as regards God is about polarity...what I mean is take a magnet it has a positive and a negative end....yin and yang has a male and female end.....these are 2 parts..of 1 whole....dynamic in their energy...yin contains yang..and can both interchange freely.....

This goes for God and man......
The Goal of many relgions is DIVINE UNION with God....to literally becme ONE with God.....
This is ALchemy...a marraige of opposites to form a new whole ...which refines the old to form a new.....a marriage of opposites to form a new whole is called a (AL)CHemical Wedding......we can think of this thusly:

Sperm..+ egg= Zygot

(If you know tarot cards...now as this is a christian discussion I doubt you will.....but we can see the image of divine union with a mediator on the classic "Devil" tarot card....but thats another story...some "the lovers" cards also depict this idea)

or Male energy+ female enegy= God.... this is what tantra and divine or sacred sex is...though one can approach this idea without sacred sex.....

Some say God is beyond gender.....yes...clearly he/she is.....but clearly God is not neuter either..God is androgenous.....as Adam and Eve were originally (an Idea LONG surpessed by the Catholic church...but not fully thankfully)...and remeber Man was created in God's image...androgenous...YIN and YANG...male AND female......

Thus God is SEX....which does not mean God is coitus...but yes God is coitus...but far far more

This is similiar tro what vigil said.....though from my own perspective.....

Personally I think God is beyond concept......
"Those who know do not speak, those that speak do not know"--lao Tzu

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Lintu

There is a Medieval theologian, a woman, (unfortunately I can't think of her name right now), who believed that G-d was the father and Jesus was man's mother.

I really do try to be open-minded about other people's beliefs but that's just whacked.

otoh, I have heard the the Holy Spirit used to be a goddess that was incorporated into Christianity (and made male). It would make more sense to me to think of the Holy Spirit as the divine mother. If the Father is transcendant and the Son is incarnate (ie- physical), it would make a nice balance for the Holy Spirit/Mother to be immanent. I can feel my Catholic friends groaning so I'll stop.

[Ceridwen018]

I really do try to be open-minded about other people's beliefs but that's just whacked.

Heh, heh--Tru dat.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by No*s

Not if you place the terminology in its context. God isn't some impersonal force in Christianity. He speaks, acts, and has revealed Himself. We understand that in personal terms. Using "it" would largely defeat the purpose of that, by preconditioning us not to regard Him that way.

When I am specifically discussing God within the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, I will occasionally refer to God as He. When I am discussing my own conceptions of God, I refrain from pronouns. But I agree that doing so keeps God very formal and distant, and "it" just doesn't cut it. I have long felt that we need a special pronoun specifically to be used for God. (I should add this to the list of advantages for polytheism. )

[No*s]

Originally Posted by lilithu

When I am specifically discussing God within the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, I will occasionally refer to God as He. When I am discussing my own conceptions of God, I refrain from pronouns. But I agree that doing so keeps God very formal and distant, and "it" just doesn't cut it. I have long felt that we need a special pronoun specifically to be used for God. (I should add this to the list of advantages for polytheism. )

Yes, I would agree there. God isn't subject to gender...but "it" just doesn't cut it. It would be nice, though, to have a special pronoun, but alas, English isn't so generous.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Isis-Astoroth

My one big problem with christianity is that it seems a patriachal religion.
Though the original bible never mentioned God as a 'he', it has been translated so that it does. This had lead so many to see God as a male and not as a non-gender being. From Adam came Eve, and from Eve and Adam came the first sin, the one of disobeying God, but it is Eve that is blamed.

The vast majority of Christian theology has been done by men, so of course it's going to be interpreted in a way that favors men. But there are other ways to interpret the text. The alternative interpretations are not necessarily more true. But when different interpretations are taken into account, the more balanced picture emerges. Take the Adam and Eve story for example.

There are three interpretations of the creation of Eve.

1) Adam means "man." The man was lonely so God made a woman out of his rib. Because Adam was first and because Eve is made out of a subset of Adam, Eve is clearly weaker, inferior to Adam.

2) Adam was made from clay and made human when God breathed His breath into him. In contrast, Eve was made from what was already human flesh. She is less clay, more refined, more pure. Therefore, Eve is superior to Adam.

3) Adam means "man." But as we all know, man can mean male or it can mean human. Before Eve was created there was only Adam, and no need for gender. Gender does not make sense without a second gender. Adam was human. When the human was made into two, there became male and female. Man and woman are equal.


Now, about Eve's role in the Fall:

The traditional view is that the Serpent tempts Eve because she was the weaker one, the easier one to tempt. She sins. Adam, seeing that she has already sinned and is lost, whether out of love or a sense of responsibility for her, decides to fall with her.

Another possible view is that Eve is the more thoughtful one, the more ambitious one. She listened to the Serpent because the Serpent was making sense, and she chose to take control of her own destiny. Adam, otoh, simply followed along.


In closing, I'd like to slip in a little discussion on the tarot. Hoomer has already mentioned the Tarot and the card "The Lovers" on this thread. I don't think that it's so off-topic, given that there is quite a bit of Christian symbolism contained within the Tarot, "The Heirophant" for example. Anyways, "The Lovers" depicts Adam and Eve.

http://www.childrenofthegravepress.com/the_lovers.htm

In the card, you see an angel (or God?) looking down from heaven. On earth, to the left is Eve, standing in front of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, with the serpent wrapped around it. On the right, you see Adam, standing in front of the tree of life, bearing twelve fruits.

This card depicts a moment that is obviously pre-"Fall." The sun is shining, everyone is happy, and Adam and Eve are clearly not ashamed of their nakedness. But the point in discussing this card is to notice how Adam and Eve are depicted. Eve looks up towards the Divine; Adam looks across towards Eve. Whether the image shows that Eve is more aware of the Divine, or whether it shows simply that she had higher aspirations, I do not know. I do know that meditating (so to speak) on this card caused me to interpret the Adam and Eve story differently than how I was originally taught, way before I learned that alternative interpretations were "allowed."

[Majikthise]

Any religions gender bias or lack there of is always mirrored in the culture which practices it.

[hoomer]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I really do try to be open-minded about other people's beliefs but that's just whacked.

otoh, I have heard the the Holy Spirit used to be a goddess that was incorporated into Christianity (and made male). It would make more sense to me to think of the Holy Spirit as the divine mother. If the Father is transcendant and the Son is incarnate (ie- physical), it would make a nice balance for the Holy Spirit/Mother to be immanent. I can feel my Catholic friends groaning so I'll stop.

Strictly Speaking the Holy Spirit is FEMALE.....and is Sophia...and the SHekinah of the JEws..I cant be botherd to write an essay..its not hard to find the divine feminine in CHristianty..she's alive and well.....people just hide her.....

for instnace the name YHVH is father mother son consort....
or Osiris ISIS Horus and maat.....
Adam eve sandelphon liith
Arthur Guinever lancelot morgaine

"jehova" mary christ magdelena...

etc....

Sophia (greek for wisdom) has never left christianity...christians left her...not the otherway around......

The Shekinah of the Jews is the Holy SPirit.....and the Shekinah as a "mother" is definatly a she!

[hoomer]

Oh and as for an after thought...traditionally the mystery of the Shekinah was for the seect few.....Yes the nature of the Goddess was secret.....and ony the initiiated were allowed to know of her....we can seee this biblicaly...when the man known as Abraham becmoes Abraham...the etter H or in hebrew He (as in YHVH) is a feminie...and represents Abraham's unity and servitude to the Goddess/Shekinah/hoy spirit......there are other examples...but this is an easy one to understand....imo

[hoomer]

Originally Posted by lilithu

The vast majority of Christian theology has been done by men, so of course it's going to be interpreted in a way that favors men. But there are other ways to interpret the text. The alternative interpretations are not necessarily more true. But when different interpretations are taken into account, the more balanced picture emerges. Take the Adam and Eve story for example.

There are three interpretations of the creation of Eve.

1) Adam means "man." The man was lonely so God made a woman out of his rib. Because Adam was first and because Eve is made out of a subset of Adam, Eve is clearly weaker, inferior to Adam.

2."

Actually this is simplified and wrong....if one looks at kabbalah (kabbalah can be viewed thusly "torah is a lamp, kabbalah is the fame upon the amp iluminating the way" --actua jewish teaching) Adam merey means 1st being....upon ANY planet...yes Kabbalists reailsed the universe is infinate......
So adam is a geenric word for 1st being...like John Doe...This is the divine Androgeneous being known to later Kabbalists through the teachings of Isaac Luria(or is it Jacob???) the man known as the Ari......as ADAM KADMON....the divine archtypal man.....

Thus adam becme adam and eve....in a split of polarity....
Originally as I have said aready adam and eve were shown as both mae and female.....as this is the divine state....

as an aside..some traditions see Christ as a reincarnation of Adam Kadmon....(christ is the alpha nad Omega)...then again some traditions beeive Christ was actualy MIchael Incarnate.....which fits in with the symbolism as Christ as a solar being sun=son...but thats another thread