Being Baptised; makes you a true Christian? (Jesus Christ, salvation, grace)

[RangerTwigz]

At my Baptist church, I used to attend a Youth Alpha group and during one of these meetings the topic of baptism was introduced. My minister explicitly said that not being baptised means that you are not fully cleansed and accepted by God. I was confused by this and I dont completly agree. I was wondering if anyone else has any views or explanations concerning baptism.

[Linus]

This has come up a lot recently here on the forums.

My reasons why baptism is the only way to obtain salvation:
Matthew 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

To me, this passage is probably the most important scripture that indicates that baptism is needed for salvation since Jesus Himself commanded it.

Acts 2:38 - Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 3:21 - Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

These are probably my top chopices of scripture for giving evidence that baptism is needed for salvation. In adidition to these, every conversion account in the Bible mentions baptism. The Phillipian jailor, the Etheopian treasurer, Lydia the seller of purple fabrics, etc. That Ethiopian treasurer recognized the fact that he needed to be baptized almost right away after Peter "preached Jesus to him." I can't see why all those people would feel the need to get baptized if it wasn't necessary.

[Scuba Pete]

Hey Ranger...

It is impossible to find a conversion in Acts that does NOT include baptism. We may not understand it, but it appears to be the point at which you are actually "saved".

But don't take my word for it... read (and re-read) the Book of Acts. See if what I say is true or not. Read the other scriptures that Linus provided. If you REALLY want to know the truth, the Spirit will open it up to you. Just be prepared to obey it when you find it.

BTW, many would argue against it by labeling it a "work". Well, neither Peter, Paul or Jesus called it a "work". It is an act of FAITH and nothing more; nothing less.

[Linus]

Good point NetDoc. Especially in light of the fact that works alone do not save.

I think it is important to look at all scripture that speaks of salvation and compile them together to get a more comprehensive description. We are not saved by any ONE thing in particular. We are saved through many things: Baptism, faith, God's grace, repentance, as well as works. Baptism just seems to be the most "important" work (if you can call it that). We cannot obtain salvation without all these things put together. One without the others is useless. Baptism is just as important as faith, which is just as important as works. I feel like I am rambling.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by RangerTwigz

At my Baptist church, I used to attend a Youth Alpha group and during one of these meetings the topic of baptism was introduced. My minister explicitly said that not being baptised means that you are not fully cleansed and accepted by God. I was confused by this and I dont completly agree. I was wondering if anyone else has any views or explanations concerning baptism.

I'm going to post here, because I'm an ex-baptist and got my theology credentials from Baptists, and I won't post anything contrary to them, nor will I post much. So, forgive me if I overstep, but I do have something I can contribute positively and felt I should.

What you have been told isn't exactly mainstream Baptist thought. They range from modified Calvinists to full-fledged Calvinists in most of my experience, and you can find some groups that say Baptism is necessary and some that deny it, but the not being "fully cleansed," that is something new to me even. Most of the time, I used to hear a more radical soteriology in which no works were neccessary.

So, try a few others, and you'll hear other Baptist opinions.

Now...I'm going to vanish again. I apologize again for any offense this may cause .

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Anglo-SaxonDeathAxe

Being burned at the stake makes you a true Christain.

Really? I wish I knew where that scripture was...

[Scuba Pete]

Opps... I didn't realise this was a "Baptist only" area. My response came from scripture and not from the Baptist dogma! My apologies.

[tshayden]

hello, we have heard the joyful sound. Jesus saves !Jesus saves!

[tshayden]

when the pharasies heard that Jesus made and baptised more diciples than John, though Jesus himself baptised not. The indication here is that we need to be baptised ogf Christ. Not of water to be saved . the outward sign of an inward work. ( The work that Christ has done, even the salvation of the soul,by the washing with his own blood,) is what baptisum represents.

[Performance Park]

Originally Posted by Linus

These are probably my top chopices of scripture for giving evidence that baptism is needed for salvation. In adidition to these, every conversion account in the Bible mentions baptism. The Phillipian jailor, the Etheopian treasurer, Lydia the seller of purple fabrics, etc. That Ethiopian treasurer recognized the fact that he needed to be baptized almost right away after Peter "preached Jesus to him." I can't see why all those people would feel the need to get baptized if it wasn't necessary.

Linus,

I have to respectfully disagree with your interpretation of scripture. You know as well as I do that we are to let scripture interpret scripture. The long existing doctrine of baptism completing the salvation process, or baptism for salvation is deep rooted in man's efforts to play a role in Christ's redemptive work at Calvary.

Matthew 28 (which I have preached many times) does mention that Christ commands us to go and baptize, but he also commanded us to love one another, to fogive, etc. Just because Christ commands something of us, doesn't make it a part of the salvation process.

Acts 2:38, Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4, Revelation 3: John the Baptists first words in ministry were "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", Christ's first words out the 40 days of fasting/prayer were "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", Peter's first word at the culmination of his Holy Spirit inspired message to 3,000 was "Repent", and some of Christ's last words to the church in Rev. 2 and 3 were "Repent".

We have to understand one crucial aspect of the salvation process. It has nothing to do with us, we simply have a choice to accep God's truth and call or reject it. I do believe baptism is important and that it is our first act of obedience in our new faith. I am troubled by folks that choose to not be baptized, and feel it is outright rebelion and often wonder if they were saved in the first place. I could go on and on and hopefully we will be able to have this discussion and get some others involved...(NetDoc?)...