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Originally Posted by keevelish
Concerning the man whom Jesus told on the cross that he would be with him that day in paradise (NOT HEAVEN)- that man looked toward the FUTURE work of Jesus on the cross- Jesus had not yet died- his work was not finished. He looked forward to future salvation just as Adam, Moses, David, and Abraham did, etc. Jesus died for our sins past, present, and future.
However, Jesus had not yet completed his work on the cross- the thief would not be going heaven when he died, but paradise (Abraham's Bosom). That is where Jesus went when he died on the cross, to speak to old testament saints, those who looked forward to a saviour, and were therefore made righteous. After he appeared to them, they accepted HIM as their saviour, and are in heaven.
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keevelish,
You make a some good points here. But you still have not managed to tell me how the situation with the thief on the cross applies to us today. We have been commanded to have faith, just like the thief. But we also have the command to be baptized (Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21), which the thief did not.
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Originally Posted by keevelish
There is no reference in the Bible to water baptism being a part of salvation, but there are countless verses that reference what Jesus did on the cross as the sole requirement for salvation.
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How can you even think that? The Greek noun "baptisma" means quite literally, "immersion, submersion, and emergence". The verb form, "Baptizo" means, "to dip". The greeks used it when refering to dying cloth, washing things, or drawing water from a well by dipping the bucket into the water.
In addition, seeing as how you still have not said anything regarding 1 Peter 3:21. Again, I will quote it. This time I will include the previous verse.
1 Peter 3: 20-21 - 20 Who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is eight persons, were brought safely through the
water. 21Corresponding to that,
baptism now saves you -
not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
I am asking you to tell me what you thnk of this verse. I have asked you several times already and you have said nothing regarding this passage. Peter here is talking about baptism with water. How can you get around that? Noah's ark and the reference to removal of dirt both are references to water baptism.
Also, John 1:31 - I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water
Again, baptism in water is directly mentioned. How can you say that there is no reference to it?
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Originally Posted by keevelish
Jesus died and said "it is finished." There was no water baptism included. It should not be a confusing matter when there is no scripture that points to baptism in water being a saving act.
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Jesus Himself was baptized earlier (Matthew 3:13; Mark 1:9; Luke 3:2). And again I point you to 1 Peter 3:20-21.
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Originally Posted by keevelish
Salvation is NOT a pick- and choose, conglomeration of facts and matters, but 1 simple choice- to accept what Jesus did on the cross as a propitiation for our sins. Simple.
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Sorry, but there is much more to it than that. Faith in God or faith in Jesus alone is not enough. You
must have the works to accompany it. You must. Faith is dead without them. I believe baptism is a work just like loving your brother, preaching the Gospel, prayer, repentence, humility. We need all of them and cannot just chose one.
02-22-2005, 06:27 PM
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