Being Baptised; makes you a true Christian? (Jesus Christ, salvation, grace)

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Performance Park

Matthew 28 (which I have preached many times) does mention that Christ commands us to go and baptize, but he also commanded us to love one another, to fogive, etc. Just because Christ commands something of us, doesn't make it a part of the salvation process.

Are you saying here that we do not need to love each other, or to forgive in order to be saved? How can we reach the goal if we do not love, forgive... baptize. I don't see how we can get there if we do not adhere to the commandments we are given. It sounds like you are saying, "Well, just because Jesus commanded it, doesn't mean we have to do it." I do not believe that salvation is as cut and dry as you seem to be indicating. It is more than just a few steps to complete. We must fight for our salvation everymoment of our lives. It is a continuous, ongoing process that we must deal with every moment of every day.

Originally Posted by Performance Park

Acts 2:38, Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4, Revelation 3: John the Baptists first words in ministry were "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", Christ's first words out the 40 days of fasting/prayer were "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", Peter's first word at the culmination of his Holy Spirit inspired message to 3,000 was "Repent", and some of Christ's last words to the church in Rev. 2 and 3 were "Repent".

Also, Acts 2:38 - Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...

What do you think Peter is saying here? How does scripture interpret itslef here?

It goes back to what I said in an earlier post. We must take ALL things into consideration when dealing with one's salvation (or any biblical topic fopr that matter). We cannot rely on a few select passages. We must put it all together to get a more comprehensive description. If one passage says, "repent" only, and another passage says, "repend and be baptized," is there a contradiction? I do not believe so. I believe that we must put the two together and realize that repentance and baptism - both together - must take place in order to attain salvation.

[videocrafter]

What about the thief on the cross? Christ said "Today you shall live with me in paradise" yet he wasn't baptized. That kind of tells me that all we need is Jesus.

[oracle]

I see salvation as an inner process, not an outer one.

[Scuba Pete]

Videocrafter...

The thief died before Jesus was resurected and his church established on the day of pentecost.

Most people reject baptism out of sheer pride. They don't understand it and so toss it aside as not needed. I have referred to Naamun before, and will do so here again. We wasn't clean until he dipped 7 times in the river Jordan. 6 times would not have worked. It is not a work of man, since God is doing the saving. However, it does seperate those who pay "lip service" to following Jesus from those intent on doing so whether they fully understand him or not.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by videocrafter

What about the thief on the cross? Christ said "Today you shall live with me in paradise" yet he wasn't baptized. That kind of tells me that all we need is Jesus.

I can't say that the thief's conversion on the cross was an everyday event. I would have to say that it was a special circumstance and a unique situation. This thief is the ONLY person to whom Jesus ever says anyhting like this. You have to admit that it was an exclusive promise made only to that person. If you use that passage, and that passage alone to prove that baptism is not necessary, then you are blatantly ignoring other pasages of scripture. Such as 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 2:38.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by oracle

I see salvation as an inner process, not an outer one.

It is. But there are outward signs that can confirm it. Works. Works are just as important in faith as faith itself. Works alone cannot save, but without them faith is dead. In short, you are right that it is an inner process, but there are outward signs thereof. Take for example, the communion. It is a process by which we commemorate the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. It is simply a time to remember, think, and concentrate...all internal things. But still we partake of the bread, and the cup. Outward signs of an internal faith. Do you see my point?

[keevelish]

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

One must look carefully to interpret this last one- the first part one would assume that you need to be baptized to be saved but in the second part of the verse, baptizm (by immersion) is not included. If you don't believe, you will go to hell.

There are actually 7 different baptisms in the Bible- in order to understand them, you have to look at the context of the scripture.

Many of the verses that people give to support their belief that baptism saves are actually referring to the baptism of the holy sprit by which believers are regenerated upon the exact moment of salvation.

In all cases in which people were baptized by immersion, the baptism occurred after the people BELIEVED in Jesus Christ as their saviour. (Acts 8:37). It is when the person asks Jesus into his heart that he is saved. Baptism by immersion is ONLY an act of obediance to God to publicly identify yourself as a believer. It is pleasing to Him, but does NOT save you.

[keevelish]

This thief is the ONLY person to whom Jesus ever says anyhting like this

Jesus told the theif this to reassure him of his salvation. Jesus can't directly speak to a believer today because he is in heaven sitted at the right hand of the Father. The holy spirit is what indwells a believer and regenerates him.

The thief was saved because he believed in the saving work of Jesus's blood and what he did on the cross. He did not need to be baptized by water.

[keevelish]

Works are necessary to PROVE your faith- they are the fruits of the spirit. However, a person does not NEED works to be saved. He is solely saved by Jesus's blood. We participate in communion and baptism because Jesus commanded these ordinaces to the church. They are works pleasing to God. If we die and we do not do that which God has commanded us (such as baptism), we will lose out on rewards in heaven, but we will STILL be in heaven. (But this is getting on to the subject of can one lose his salvation).

[keevelish]

Also, Acts 2:38 - Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...

What do you think Peter is saying here? How does scripture interpret itslef here?

Like I said, most people who believe that baptizm by water is necessary for salvation quote verses that in their context, actually are referring to the baptism of the holy spirit.

Acts 2:38 says baptized in the name of Jesus- think- we get saved by calling on the name of Jesus(For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved Romans 10:13).
"I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:8).


BUT- we are to baptize in water in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Sprit.
Acts 2:38 does Not include the Father and the Holy Spirit. This verse is NOT referring to water baptism, but to SPIRIT baptism.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"Matthew 28:19). (this is baptism by immersion, a church ordinance, as it is also commanded of churches to go out and spread the gospel).