abiogenesis and the orgin of life (moral, Earth, atheist, Almighty)

[robtex]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

Again: on what grounds do you select #2 and create, not only a universe, but also a teleology?

Got to read more theory on teleology and reply after that. Are you gonna throw out a gander on why you are going with choice # 1?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by robtex

Are you gonna throw out a gander on why you are going with choice # 1?

Less baggage. The question is, on what grounds, other than wishful thinking, do you justify the baggage? I think Darwin put it best when he wrote:

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.

-- Charles Darwin, Introduction to The Descent of Man (1871)

[robtex]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

Less baggage. The question is, on what grounds, other than wishful thinking, do you justify the baggage? I think Darwin put it best when he wrote:

I got to read more Dwarwin thanks for the tip.

Use of baggage is begging the question. You are stating that the supernatural divine (pick a name) as baggage is outside metaverse or deemed as extra-metaverse.

Less baggage is an answer of convience instead of rationalization.

For instance, say I said to you rocks can breath carbon dioxide. You reply with

1) they cannot because they lack the facilities neccessary for them to capture and manage intakes of air.

or

2) They cannot because it has not been witnessed or discovered that they are able to intake carbon dioxide.

In my personal summation I would contend that while the conclusion of both statments are true the premise makes only the first one valid in its presenation which becomes material in ideas that are not prior-proven as absolute.

When you say less baggage you have assumed instead of assessed the absense of a divine presence.

Answering your question:

Original question:

divine intervention and teleology of it.

The first premise of teleology is intelligent design. I would like to point out that consistant design is a mark of evidence for intelligent design. I say this because species on this planet have consistantly succeeded in survivial and if evolution were, completely random, than I would expect a higher fail rate given the neccessary requiements for survivial of a species.

For example modern mammels that are in line with any species consistantly spawn later models of mammels with lungs. If it were completely random shouldn't some be born without lungs wtih a relative frequency thus making it purely coincidental and random?

The pattern observed by biology genetics and evolution is that the net result yields an amazingly postitive result in light of number of varibles and contigencies that need to be met for a species to survive. These contingencies include moblilty, regeneration, length of standard life cycle and internal organ functions amoung others. If the offspring of a species in the evolution cycle was completely random shouldn't it yield a curve approximating zero or slighly above?

On premise two of what I read of teleology today there is as of date no evidence to suggest that organisms have been self created from non organisms. Without any evidence that species can asexually self propogate from non species I submit that as evidence that a supernatural force can claim that responsiblity.

There were actually three types of teleolgy that I read about and interesting enough two were secular in nature.
http://www.kheper.net/topics/cosmology/teleology.html

I think the anthropic princple bears mentioning at this junture too. I would say based on the notion of the anthropic princple that a divine presence holds validity as weighable by magnitude and structure of the universe --as an orderly structure and the strong draw of a large percentage of humanity to that which is divine.

I am going to say though that I cannot think of a reason as to why quantum blips could have not resulted in the metaverse. Quantum physics is a valid science and as such cannot be excluded in its probablity as to the orgins of the universe.

references for post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://skepdic.com/begging.html