Pres. stand against gay rights (Jesus Christ, moral, punishment, Creator)

[Christian_Vegan_Weirdo]

I really never use to care about gay and lesbian rights, my church told me that it was wrong to be gay or lesbian, and I simpally listend to them without question. Then I got into high school, and I made a friend. Within the first week or two of our friendship, she told me that she had lesbian parents. Since then, I have wondered why the PCA has been openly agianst Gay rights.

Why? What scripture in the Bible clearly states that gay or lesbian=bad?

Personally, I am "strate", but would like to know why the Pres. church is agianst gay rights.

[Doc]

Although religiously, I am unsure of the issue of gay marriage, I don't believe the strates and leaders of this country can decide who marries who. They are taking away the equality granted to every person in this country. I frankly do not see how this hurts anyone in any way for people to marry each other. I don't understand why people should be bothered by two same sex people living together. People cried out when blacks and whites married and they still do. I personally support opposite race marriage because the more diversity we have, the better.
As for the Presbyterian church, I am unclear of many of its teachings and ideals. I believe it is a strict religion in some areas that I know of.

[t3gah]

That's the thing isn't it?! The Bible which Churches are adhering to was penned by persons chosen by God. The Constitution was written by men and not an inspired document with God's standards in mind completely. The whole Gay marriage thing by the states and cities is fine for the Constitution for equal rights but not ok with the statutes in the Bible. Since this thread is about what a Church is doing and not what Government is doing, the answer lies in the scriptures and not documents penned by the "founding fathers" of the USA.

[linwood]

Originally Posted by Christian_Vegan_Weirdo

Why? What scripture in the Bible clearly states that gay or lesbian=bad?

Personally, I am "strate", but would like to know why the Pres. church is agianst gay rights.

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Thats it there ya go.

[Doc]

As is slavery

[standing_on_one_foot]

Originally Posted by linwood

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

So's eating pork, darnit!

But yes, anyway, I'd say the Bible is anti-homosexual, and that's why Bush is.

Now, what does adultery have to do with this question, exactly? Unless you're having a homosexual affair with someone, but that's immoral for a completely different reason.

PS: Hey, we can help the, ah, problem of gay people having sex outside of marriage by letting them marry, there's a thought. Gets one sin out of the way, at least, right?

[Christian_Vegan_Weirdo]

Originally Posted by linwood

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Thats it there ya go.

I really don't understand how that has to do with being gay/les., it sounds like to me that you are quoting a verse that says taht we should not lie with someone outside of marrage, but the problem with this verse is also that it is out of context. If I saw some of the verses around it, perhaps it would be different, and I could understand how it is an abomination.


T3gah (what does that stand for, by the way?), thank you for your verses, they were very helpful. Might I ask you what version of the Bible you used? I do agree with some of what you siad about the constitution, but I personally think that the constitution was perhaps written by man, but it was written by them to protect any beliefe, religios or not. That means that I can have a belief in anything, and I can not be prohibited from that belief, as long as it does not harm someone else. I can believe in computers, and think that computers created the universe, and the government can't stop me. The part of the constitution was allowing free will to all, and equal rights to all, be they man, woman, mexican, american, indian, african etc.. we must come to God by our own free will, and no government can force us into being a child of God, that is our own personal chouse and is granted through Christ, by the Holly Spirit. The man who wrote the consitution understood this, and also understood that our nation could not and would not advance if we were constintly stopping and listening to one person/man/woman/book whatever. If we were all Christians in America, every last one of us, and all had the same interpratations of the Bible, and same beliefs, then our laws could be set to say that no gay marrage is allowed. But, we are not all of the same religion and belief, so our laws have to be open enough to insure freedom, and closed to insure safetly. We can do this and allow gay marrage. If we all adopt the same religios beliefs in america, then this can be changed.

But this is really only 50% on topic, so let's not get off to much.

Another question I have: Why do you think that God would consider being gay/lesbian unnatual? Of course, I am not to question what God says, but I was just wondering if anyone had any inlightment to offer on this.

Thanks!!!
Jennifer

[linwood]

I really don't understand how that has to do with being gay/les., it sounds like to me that you are quoting a verse that says taht we should not lie with someone outside of marrage, but the problem with this verse is also that it is out of context. If I saw some of the verses around it, perhaps it would be different, and I could understand how it is an abomination.

The context of this one really doesn`t matter much considering this chapter of Leviticus is merely a laundry list of things God doesn`t want you to do.
Here is the chapter in it`s entirety...
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Lev/Lev018.html#22

The irony is that these laws are supposedly "ceremonial" and not "moral" which many Christians tell me they no longer need to abide by.
However this is the one they quote to me when this subject comes up anyway.

The other support Christians claim to have for an anti-homosexual agenda is the Ten Commandments and the "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" law there.

The irony and catch 22 mentioned by Standing On One Foot is that Christians will not allow gay people to marry therefore they shall always be guilty of breaking that commandment and the reason they will not allow them this right as far as I can tell is leviticus 18:22 which they supposedly no longer have to follow.

I don`t get it either.

Another question I have: Why do you think that God would consider being gay/lesbian unnatual? Of course, I am not to question what God says, but I was just wondering if anyone had any inlightment to offer on this.

If God does consider it unnatural then he is grossly unaware of his own creation considering I know of no species that does not indulge in homosexual actions at some point.

[john313]

The Christians who say the law of Moses does not need to be followed are the followers of Paul the Liar. He said the law is nailed to the cross with Jesus. But of course Jesus said the Law shall not change until the heavens and earth pass away. Evidently the Pauline christians follow Paul instead of Jesus, whom they claim is God......I don't understand it.

In Nature, there is no biological niche for homosexuality. It runs counter to all principles of biology and physiology. Sex originally came into existence for the purpose of procreation, and the pleasurable component of sex exists merely to ensure that animals (humans included) have intercourse and procreate the species. Hence, sexual activity that exists outside the realm of procreation-that is, sex with animals, sex with prepubescent children, sex with inanimate objects, and sex with someone of one's own sex-are all unnatural. While two men may care for each other, it would be unnatural for either of them to feel a sexual attraction for the other: homosexuals claim that they feel an attraction to others of the same sex, but this does not change the fact that they are biologically not capable of having natural intercourse with that individual. In other words, for those who choose a homosexual lifestyle, the mind is always out of balance with the body. Intuitively speaking, homosexual intercourse is clearly forced. Unlike the vagina, the anus is not self-lubricating, so an artificial lubricant must be used. The vagina is self-cleansing, while the anus is a filthy wasteland of bacteria. The anus exists to excrete fecal matter from the body; it should be apparent to any reasonable thinker that the anus ought not be used as a receptacle for a penis. Furthermore, one could only wonder why the rate of sexually-transmitted diseases among those who engage in homosexual sex is many times greater than among those who engage in natural sex.

Put quite simply, sexual attraction to something or someone with which or with whom one cannot reproduce is not natural, balanced or healthy.

[Lintu]

I think that due to the commandment to "be fruitful and multiply," homosexual activity was looked down upon. If everyone on earth refused to have heterosexual relationships, humanity would die out. Prohibitions against homosexuality, I believe, are simply to encourage the spread of the religion that is stating the prohibitions. Religious traditions are self-perpetuating. I think that there is a very positive place in this world for people who cannot bear their own children (note: I do realize that homosexual couples can have biological children through surrogate mothers/sperm donors). For one, the earth is overpopulated; there is no dire need for a high birth rate. Second, although it is true that a homosexual person can produce a child, it seems that the demand for adopted children would be higher in homosexual relationships just out of pragmatism. What could be better than having even MORE loving couples around to adopt children who wouldn't otherwise have a family?