Pres. stand against gay rights (Jesus Christ, moral, punishment, Creator)

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by john313

Put quite simply, sexual attraction to something or someone with which or with whom one cannot reproduce is not natural, balanced or healthy.

Perhaps you'd like to start a thread in the debate section. Your comments do not "fit" here. I'd gladly debate the issue if you did!

Bob

[Mr Spinkles]

*MOD POST*

Moving to debates...

[Christian_Vegan_Weirdo]

Originally Posted by john313

In Nature, there is no biological niche for homosexuality. It runs counter to all principles of biology and physiology. Sex originally came into existence for the purpose of procreation, and the pleasurable component of sex exists merely to ensure that animals (humans included) have intercourse and procreate the species. Hence, sexual activity that exists outside the realm of procreation-that is, sex with animals, sex with prepubescent children, sex with inanimate objects, and sex with someone of one's own sex-are all unnatural. While two men may care for each other, it would be unnatural for either of them to feel a sexual attraction for the other: homosexuals claim that they feel an attraction to others of the same sex, but this does not change the fact that they are biologically not capable of having natural intercourse with that individual. In other words, for those who choose a homosexual lifestyle, the mind is always out of balance with the body. Intuitively speaking, homosexual intercourse is clearly forced. Unlike the vagina, the anus is not self-lubricating, so an artificial lubricant must be used. The vagina is self-cleansing, while the anus is a filthy wasteland of bacteria. The anus exists to excrete fecal matter from the body; it should be apparent to any reasonable thinker that the anus ought not be used as a receptacle for a penis. Furthermore, one could only wonder why the rate of sexually-transmitted diseases among those who engage in homosexual sex is many times greater than among those who engage in natural sex.

First, I don't want you to think that I'm fighting what you're saying, I'm just trying to understand this, and I am a debater, which means that anything you say, I'm going to most likely find an orgument against it. So, with that in mind, I want to ask this:

You said that sex was for procreation, so can two married couples, who do not wish to have kids, have sex for whatever other purpose they have? Is this also a sin?

I have more questions... I'll be back!

Thanks everyone, your defently helping to clear this up!
Jennifer

[Christian_Vegan_Weirdo]

Originally Posted by linwood

If God does consider it unnatural then he is grossly unaware of his own creation considering I know of no species that does not indulge in homosexual actions at some point.

Read the past post... up at the top, one of the first ones (I think it was infact he first one), and then go down to where it has the Bible verses and the first one under "Is homosexuality wrong?"

[Sunstone]

I don't get it. There are over 300 species of animals that scientists have identified as having homosexuality. That would strongly suggest that homosexuality is natural. The fact there are biblical passages which seem to contradict that homosexuality is natural, does not change the fact that over 300 species have been observed to have homosexual behavior.

So did God create nature or not? And if God created nature, why did he create over 300 species with homosexual behavior, but then turn around and condemn homosexuality in the bible?

[linwood]

Moving to debates...

Thank you Spinkles.

The Christians who say the law of Moses does not need to be followed are the followers of Paul the Liar. He said the law is nailed to the cross with Jesus. But of course Jesus said the Law shall not change until the heavens and earth pass away. Evidently the Pauline christians follow Paul instead of Jesus, whom they claim is God......I don't understand it.

As an infidel it is even more confusing for me.
I wish y`all would figure it out and let me know how it comes out.

Do you eat shellfish John?
Have you ever worn polyester? ( I agree this one may be a sin)
Have you ever stoned your son for disrespect?
Eveer cut your hair or trimmed your beard?

Do you advocate death for those who commit homosexual acts?

If you have ever done any of the first 4 you`re not following the laws of Moses.
If you do not advocate the last you do not follow the laws of Moses

In Nature, there is no biological niche for homosexuality. It runs counter to all principles of biology and physiology.

While this may be true (I say may be, not "IS") I can offer an insane amount of documented evidence to show it does indeed happen regularly and with great frequency in the natural world untouched by mans influence.

One of our closest biological cousins the Bonobo chimp has a bisexual percentage of 99% among females and close if not the same among males.

Homosexuality exists in nature, you cannot get around it.

Sex originally came into existence for the purpose of procreation, and the pleasurable component of sex exists merely to ensure that animals (humans included) have intercourse and procreate the species.

Yes and with absolutely no guidance or biological boundry that stipulates how this sexual urge is to be sated.
We, like animals have no pre-programmed biological mechanism that tells us who to copulate with.

All our urges do is create the desire to copulate.

Like all bioligical urges and or mutations, playing the percentages is relied upon.

Hence, sexual activity that exists outside the realm of procreation-that is, sex with animals, sex with prepubescent children, sex with inanimate objects, and sex with someone of one's own sex-are all unnatural.

Untrue, I`ve already stated why and provided evidence.

While two men may care for each other, it would be unnatural for either of them to feel a sexual attraction for the other:

Please inform the aforementioned Bonobos of this revelation.
Tell the rest of the animal kingdom too while you`re at it.

Intuitively speaking, homosexual intercourse is clearly forced.

Your intuition of this is based on..what exactly?

Unlike the vagina, the anus is not self-lubricating, so an artificial lubricant must be used.

You show your ignorance of homosexuality with the previous quote.
Homosexuality does not equate with anal sex.
In fact many homosexual men don`t practice it.

This also leaves lesbianism wide open for a free for all.

I`m sure you don`t mean to do that do you?

The vagina is self-cleansing, while the anus is a filthy wasteland of bacteria.

Perhaps you do.

Furthermore, one could only wonder why the rate of sexually-transmitted diseases among those who engage in homosexual sex is many times greater than among those who engage in natural sex.

Actually heterosexual women have the highest rate of STI contraction.
Not homosexuals.

Put quite simply, sexual attraction to something or someone with which or with whom one cannot reproduce is not natural, balanced or healthy.

My wife cannot bear children, my sexual relationship with her is unnatural and unhealthy according to your standards.

You`ll have to do better than that.

The final fact is that you nor anyone else has the right to tell me or anyone what to do with my body or who I can do it with.

You have no right to tell me who I can spend my life with and who I cannot.

You have no right to deny me the rights you take for granted because I do not use my body for the same purposes you do.

To cite a couple of quotes I recently stumbled across "

"The authority of any governing institution must stop at its citizen's skin"
Gloria Steinem

or

"Keep your Jesus off my peepee"
Unknown

[Fluffy]

In Nature, there is no biological niche for homosexuality.

What about as a control upon population levels?

Hence, sexual activity that exists outside the realm of procreation-that is, sex with animals, sex with prepubescent children, sex with inanimate objects, and sex with someone of one's own sex-are all unnatural.

Unnatural? Define what you mean as unnatural. There are plenty of unnatural things in life. For example eating food is primarily for sustenance. The pleasure we get from eating food is just a way of making us eat. This causes us to eat sweeter things, even if those things provide less energy for us or are bad for us. So this is "unnatural" as well. My question would be, so what?

The anus exists to excrete fecal matter from the body; it should be apparent to any reasonable thinker that the anus ought not be used as a receptacle for a penis.

Firstly anal sex is not something that exists soley for gay people, straight people do it as well. Secondly, there are other forms of sex, such as oral, which could be used by gay people. Thirdly, using a condom reduces the possibility of any harm caused by anal sex to the same level as that of using a condom in vaginal sex. In fact this is almost lessened further since many gay people using higher strength condoms (because the anus is tighter) which lowers the chance of the condom splitting.

You said that sex was for procreation, so can two married couples, who do not wish to have kids, have sex for whatever other purpose they have? Is this also a sin?

CVW, in his post, john has merely shown that homosexuality is "unnatural" and I am not yet clear what exactly he means by this. However, I doubt that you could jump from something being unnatural to something being a sin as you have done. See higher up in my post for other examples of unnatural behaviour by humans which isn't considered a sin.

[linwood]

Originally Posted by Christian_Vegan_Weirdo

Read the past post... up at the top, one of the first ones (I think it was infact he first one), and then go down to where it has the Bible verses and the first one under "Is homosexuality wrong?"

I read it vegan but it has no impact on my statement.

If God is against homosexuality then he messed up and gave almost every living animal a penchent for it.

Unless it is also one of his "tests" or he`s just funnin`with us.