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  #41  
Old 10-10-2008, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli View Post
Yes, the House of Lords, which has continually been depleted of their power for years now. They don't even make policy decisions anymore.
They may indeed have been depleted of power. However they still have a role in decision making:

Church of England Measures


Quote:
The Indian Prime Minister is a Sikh, I don't know where you're get the drivel about a foreign-born Catholic PM. I doubt the veracity of these statements you are making in the above paragraph.
Read more carefully, my friend. I said that Sonia Ghandi, an Italian born Catholic PM was elected as prime minister, but steped down from the post ---- and then elected Manmohan Singh(Sikh) However, she is still the leader of the Congress party and still has more power than Manmohan singh. Her stepping down was more of a token-act, because many Hindus were not happy with her being PM.

The point being in no other country would a foreign born person be allowed to take the highest positions of power in another country. There are 80% Hindus, we should have have Hindu leaders that represent the masses of the country.


Quote:
So far, the only problem I have pinned down on Hindu adherents has been the oppression of the Sikhs and other religious minorities.
Do you realise that just last month several bombs went off in Delhi killing many and injuring many more by Isalmic terrorists? The terrorists were from Muslim areas and lived just behind a Mosque. Do you know that Hindus have been facing oppression by Muslims living in India ever since it gained independence? The terrorism hasn't stopped, it is a routine affair in India. Another couple of months ago a wave of Islamic terrorism hit the country. Read about Kashmiri Brahmins and their persecution.

Indians cannot do anything about this terrorism because of Congress, which isn't doing anything. In recent bomb blasts, irony would have it a major Congress minister who was in charge of looking after peoples security, was more concerned about his clothes than the people. Indian people were really furious and called for his resignation. Nothing has happened because of the incompetent government in place.


Quote:
Saying pornography is a Christian problem is not true, since it is not made by or propagated by them. Oppression of religious minorities by a Hindu majority is a Hindu problem.
Well if pornography is not a Christian problem, oppression of religious minorities is not a Hindu problem, it is also a social problem. The situation is far more complex than you care to admit or analyse.

It is actually reverse oppression. The Congress government has a system of discrimination where people of minority castes and religions are given special reservations in education, in civil service in jobs and other provision e.g., Muslims can marry as many people as they want, but Hindus cannot. The system is a sham and the recent Gujjar riots in Rajasthan go to show just how ridiculous people believe the system to be.

The congress government have tried to suppress Hindu majority in the name of looking after the minoirites. Nowhere in the world is this done. If half of the things that are done to Hindus by the Indian government took place in the Western world, the majority white people would be personally asking minorities to leave their country.

It does not make sense when you have 2% Christians and 1% Sikhs and 10% Muslims that they would get more favourable treatment than 80% Hindus. That is not secularism. That is a joke. This is why Hindu nationalist movements have arisen to fight such corruption and oppression of Hindus.

Quote:
You are just proving my own point when you bring these examples up: followers of religions motivated by the tenets or the limitations of their own beliefs to commit heinous acts.
Sorry we do not agree. What some followers do in the name of religion is not the same as religion. Again, the situation is far more complex than you care to admit or analyse.


Quote:
So the Indus Valley Civilization then? Your dates are off, as common scholarly opinion places the Mature Harappan period as starting c. 2600 BC. No matter, it's a bit like apples and oranges when comparing two societies that evolved independently from each other.
You see this is part of the academic prejudice against Hindus(I posted some article at the start of this thread on this) that began from colonial times. It is well know today that there is no Aryan invasion, that so called Aryan Indians and Dravidian Indians are one and the same people and genetically the same.

The Aryan invasion theory was a racist theory that Max Mueller and early colonial historians and Christian missionaries invented to justify their "white mans burden"

Modern scholarship has proven Aryan invasion theory to be what it was racist propoganda. We know the real history of India now. There is an unbroken continuity between the Megrah, Indus Valley and so-called Vedic period and classical period. There was no invasion, there were internal changes brought about by the drying of the Saraswati river and internal wars. The evidence of urban civilisation is also present between 2000-1000BCE. We also know the Vedic periord either precedes the IVC or is contemporous with it.

The Mahabharata is also now believed to have been a real event. I believe Want to be Hindu posted earlier, that while other religions history is taken to be real, Hindu history is taken to be myth. Yet, Indian hisory and recent research insists the Mahabharata is a real event. Indian history places the Mahabharata in 3200 BCE. This was the major turning point in Indian history as per Indian records, because after this huge war massive catacylsms occured in Indian society.

The accounts of Urban civilisation as told in the Mahabharata is consistent with IVC. The extent of trade and relationships with other countries as told in the Mahabharata is consistent with IVC. The kind of engineering and townmanship seen in Vedic texts is consistent with IVC.

Indian history has suffered at the hands of racist scholarship. They have tried to make Indian history conform to biblical chronologies and dated it according to that. The fact is Indian history is very old and goes back to some 10,000 years. If you look at the racist model the Vedic age begins around 1500BCE in India(depending on invasion date) at this point the Aryans are primitive, pastal, nomadic barbarians. Then within a few centuries they begin to write treatasies on metaphysics, grammar, astronomy. Yet, if you look at these treatises, they mention a long lineage of experts. If you even look at earlier records by the Greeks they mention a lineage of Hindu kings going back to 6000BCE.

Modern scholarship does not take the early racist scholarship seriously anymore. In fact the racist scholars themselves admitted they were guessing. All of the evidence is overwhelming indicating that Hindu civilisation is some 10,000 years old and has had a continious history. They were the first to build an advanced civilisation, which reached its technical peak in 4000-3000BCE(Mature phase is not the peak) they explored and colonised much of the world and had trade with all the major countries in the ancient world. This is how their Arya culture spread around the world. They are the original Proto-Indo-Europeans, and Vedic Sanskrit is the mother of all Indo-European languages.

This was believed by European scholars in the earliest time. But the racist Christian missionaries could not accept that. Well, they have no choice now, the evidence is so overwhelming, that many modern scholars of Hinduism and indological studies are being forced to revise history.

Hindus deserve to have their histort and heritage be properly represented in the world and all the academic racism that exists against them needs to be abolished pronto. It still continues in places like Harvard, this is a huge and royal shame to the modern age.


Anyway my original point was that there was no equal to the IVC or the classical society. There indeed wasn't no other ancient civilisation comes close to the scientific, cultural and technical excellence of the Hindu civilisation. Again read my Hindu thread. Hindus were writing treatises on linguistic computer science in 1000BCE.

My Philosophy teacher once said to me that Western Philosophy has a fetish with Greek Philosophy and seems to treat Philosophy and Science as being a Western thing. Well the truth is before the Greeks Philosophy had science had already been developed to an extent not seen until the modern age by Hindus. The modern age itself is influenced by Hindus. It is time to acknowledge the Hindu civilisation.
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  #42  
Old 10-10-2008, 03:12 AM
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A message to my Hindu brothers and sisters,


You need to realise that a lot of hate, prejudice exists against Hinduism and India in the West. It may not be openly stated, but it is there. As soon as a Hindu starts saying positive things about India or Hinduism, or the subject of India or Hinduism comes up, that is when it rears its ugly head. It is as bad as anti-semiticism. However, with the latter, Jews have done enough to stop it from happening.

Hindus like the Jews should demand compensation for what was done to them. To go from being the wealthist country in the world to the poorest at independence is no small thing. The poverty and illiteracy in India is the result of 200 years of brutal occupation by the West. The black people continue to keep the memory of the slave-trade alive, we Hindus need to keep the memory of the brutal occupation of India alive.

The constant accusations you guys get(Hindus) of caste syste, sati, dowry etc is not justified. It is just anti-Hinduism/Hinduphobia, disguised as concern. How can it be justified when we know for a fact that caste system oppression was also in the West in the form of feudal systems, which was nothing more than glorified slavery. It is interesting they complain about inequality, when in fact as Ghandi said himself, they have plundered the whole world to enjoy their luxurious lives.

I think Want to be Hindu will tell you just how much our luxurious lives in the West costs the rest of the world, and suddenly they are the champions of equality? Right about 90% of the worlds resources are consumed by the West, and they are speaking of equality and the audacity to point fingers at India? The biggest Western country is on the brink of economic depression because of selfish lifestyles its people lead.

Domestic violence is the highest in Western countries, and yet they complain of women being oppressed in India?

It's nothing but Hinduphobia. It is not justified and you don't have to put up with it. Complain to an authority when people unfairly attack your religion and put them straight. You don't deserve to put up with it.
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  #43  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ax0547 View Post
Also so what if muslisms did wrong to us, but that doesn't mean Islam is wrong. Dude we have muslims saints words i our holy book. Golden Temple's first brick was laid down by a muslim. Guru Nanak's best friend was a muslim. Not say that I don't have disagreement with some Islamic principle's, but I'd look into my plate first and then comment on other's.

Soory I do not accpet your bribe or threat, I abide by truth.
Ah dude, why do you have to rain on his rationalizations for hatred and self-pity with your message of love and reason? It's just not fair, I tell ya!



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  #44  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lilithu View Post
Ah dude, why do you have to rain on his rationalizations for hatred and self-pity with your message of love and reason? It's just not fair, I tell ya!



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Thank you! thats all I can say right now!
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  #45  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:28 AM
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On Sikhism and Islam. As a born Sikh myself I will tell you there is a lot of resentment of Islam within Sikhs. If you go to your local Gudwara, you won't miss the pictures of Sikhs being tortured and Gurus being beheaded by Muslims. Not all Sikhs generalise this to Islam, but loads do. Anti-islam feelings are very common amongst Sikhs. I myself use to tell my own parents off when they say such and such about Muslims! You can't blame them though they have learned this in Sikh history and teachings at the Gudwara.

Even amongst Sikh youth there is a lot of rivalry between Sikhs and Muslim. As I belong to the Sikh community I can personally attest to the rivalry between Sikhs and Muslims. There have been gang-wars between them in the past in the UK, and there are occasional incidents of Sikh-Muslim violence in London Westend.

Quote:
Chalvey Boyz V Shere-E-Punjab, 14.10.05


There may be calm right now on the streets of Slough hit by gang violence eight years ago, but Eastern Eye has found teenagers poised to restart one of the bitterest inter-Asian conflicts.

Muslim schoolboys, whose parents hope would be concentrating on their exams, openly talk about taking revenge on Sikhs. They are waiting for the right time to strike, learning in the meantime from their older brothers who started the initial troubles. The fights will lead to bloodshed in Slough.

That is the scene in Chalvey, a predominately Muslim district of Slough, where underneath a superficial layer of harmony broods a sense of cultural tension.

It dates back to the ugly scenes of April 1997, when an 80-strong gang known as the Shere-e-Punjab, a Birmingham-based group, arrived in the town waving Sikh flags before attacking homes and cars.

They were there to fight the Chalvey Boyz, Islamic extremists who had been cautioned by the police only months earlier for threatening non-Muslim students outside a college in nearby Hounslow.
Source: Sikh vs muslim gang war starting up again - Punjabi discussion Forums at punjabi.net


There are people who want to pretend they are secular and there is love and peace between religions. However, the reality is far from that. Hindus and Sikhs by large do not like Muslims and vis versa. I don't agree with hatred for any religion, but at the same time, Islam has a lot to answer for. I am not going to pretend that Islam is this peaceful religion just because Muslims say it is. The history and the doctrines tell a different story.

Last edited by Surya Deva; 10-10-2008 at 11:31 AM..
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  #46  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Suraj View Post
There are people who want to pretend they are secular and there is love and peace between religions. However, the reality is far from that.
Granted, it is hard to maintain that belief with people like you around.
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  #47  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Suraj View Post
On Sikhism and Islam. As a born Sikh myself I will tell you there is a lot of resentment of Islam within Sikhs. If you go to your local Gudwara, you won't miss the pictures of Sikhs being tortured and Gurus being beheaded by Muslims. Not all Sikhs generalise this to Islam, but loads do. Anti-islam feelings are very common amongst Sikhs. I myself use to tell my own parents off when they say such and such about Muslims! You can't blame them though they have learned this in Sikh history and teachings at the Gudwara.

Even amongst Sikh youth there is a lot of rivalry between Sikhs and Muslim. As I belong to the Sikh community I can personally attest to the rivalry between Sikhs and Muslims. There have been gang-wars between them in the past in the UK, and there are occasional incidents of Sikh-Muslim violence in London Westend.



Source: Sikh vs muslim gang war starting up again - Punjabi discussion Forums at punjabi.net


There are people who want to pretend they are secular and there is love and peace between religions. However, the reality is far from that. Hindus and Sikhs by large do not like Muslims and vis versa. I don't agree with hatred for any religion, but at the same time, Islam has a lot to answer for. I am not going to pretend that Islam is this peaceful religion just because Muslims say it is. The history and the doctrines tell a different story.
Dude first explain if you are a hindu or as SIKH - just go to any sikh website and reconsider you points. Yes there have been many fights with muslims - so have there been with Hindu's. We resent Hindu's more than Muslims after 1984 - who massacred in delhi. Thats is a reality too. I have dares you to go to any gurudarawa and yel"sikhs are hindus" - you gono be get beaten so bad. You either call yourself as hindu or sikh - don't try to confuse people. Yeas and mostly people that acepted Sikhism were hindu's. How do you call yourself sikh if you wirship cows and so on. it is totally opposite -
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  #48  
Old 10-10-2008, 12:01 PM
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Just read this article - it is on hindu news paper itself - you ****** - read it carefully - a hindu wrote it!

The Hindu : Are the Sikhs Hindus?

Last edited by ax0547; 10-10-2008 at 01:13 PM..
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  #49  
Old 10-10-2008, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lilithu View Post
Granted, it is hard to maintain that belief with people like you around.
It is hard to talk about religion rationally and realistically and deal with problems in religion, with people like yourself around. Masters in comparative religion?

Look up pseudo-secularism when you get time.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Suraj View Post
It is hard to talk about religion rationally and realistically and deal with problems in religion, with people like yourself around.
Sorry hon, the fact that you are having trouble talking rationally and realistically has nothing to do with me.
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