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  #1  
Old 09-22-2008, 05:50 PM
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Default Is it insanity?
I was listening to free thought radio and one of their hosts Dan Barker who was a life time evangelist and preacher is now an atheist. He just came out with a new book that describes the whole experience which I have not yet read but will soon and reccomend for you to read with that note of ignorance. A minor point.

He said he was able to and still, even as an atheist, speaks in tongues. He understands it now but it strikes me that there are people who believe in revalation and faith healing and are quite hell sworn serious about it.

They will die for their belief and will try to convince as many people as they can before they go that gays are wrong, god answers prayers and knows and sees all and that jesus is coming.

Its not everyone one and everyone believes some crazy variation but I was talking to a friend who is a half hearted christian and attends church occasionally but makes a big deal out of it when he does and our conversation went like this:

How is SC2 Alpha?

Seriously... I was kidding... god damn you believe anything.

Don't say god damn it offends me.

It offends me that you dont get free speech and say god bless you everytime I sneeze. Get over it.

*snickers* You should come to church this sunday.

To read about jesus or to figure out who to vote for?

Seriously its not like that and as much as you know about jesus then you know there is always more to learn.

Yeah... so what is Jesus to you? Was he a man that died 2000 years ago or so?

Hmm... Yeah but he is more then that too.

So other things that are more then us exist, can be born as humans to virgins and can then die but then can return 100s of years later to life? You really believe that? Seriously? They are your beliefs but thats ridiculous.

Its not really ridiculous its just my belief.

No its ridiculous and if its your belief I would say your probably lying. No one actualy believes this stuff... heaven and hell and a great after life judge to set straight everything because everyone is just so special... wait wait... Its carebear no PvP everyone is a hero crap... its the matrix

*laughing* When you say it.. it sounds silly... but people can come back from the dead.

2000 years later?

Well no... but it will be a new body.

Another virgin birth then?


-------------------

Anyways... is it delusion? Insanity? What? Anyone see the article on conservatives vrs liberals and fear? (I think wired ran it) It was interesting as well...
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2008, 06:38 PM
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I don't think it is insanity. I think it's just something that was always seen as true. You know?? For example, I still think Pluto is a planet, because it has always been a planet. No matter how many jerks say it isn't, I'm still going to say it is.
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  #3  
Old 09-22-2008, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by whereismynotecard View Post
I don't think it is insanity. I think it's just something that was always seen as true. You know?? For example, I still think Pluto is a planet, because it has always been a planet. No matter how many jerks say it isn't, I'm still going to say it is.
That's true. I don't think it's insanity, just the only thing they've ever known. It can be terrifying to begin to realize it's all a lie. I still believe Pluto is a planet, but only for sentimental reasons. I understand, scientifically, why it is not, though.
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  #4  
Old 09-22-2008, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BalanceFx View Post
It offends me that you dont get free speech and say god bless you everytime I sneeze. Get over it.
I'm afraid I found that part hilarious. The ideal of free speech is to say whatever you want and not be offended by anything that other people say, and freedom of religion
(by the way) also means that ideally nobody should be offended by what other people believe.

I disagree with Scientology, for example. By no means do their beliefs offend me. I disagree with the apostle Paul on most aspects. I am not offended by his beliefs or sayings.

But on to the topic at hand, I think by reading what I stated above you should be able to discern whether or not I believe 'it's' insanity, whatever 'it' is. I do not think beliefs in mythology are insanity. I actually think the word 'insanity' has been downgraded to mean anything the mainstream doesn't agree with while it's original meaning is lost. It's sad.
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  #5  
Old 09-23-2008, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by whereismynotecard View Post
I don't think it is insanity. I think it's just something that was always seen as true. You know?? For example, I still think Pluto is a planet, because it has always been a planet. No matter how many jerks say it isn't, I'm still going to say it is.
Right... Well what differentiates the two fictional tales of say santa claus and that of the second coming of christ?

There are adults that believe in both. Given, not nearly as many believe santa to be a real entity but cip some do. Many more probably believe in the second or some say third coming of christ but we do not give credence to the falacious appeal to the masses. As my mom used to say if all your friends jumped off a bridge does that make it right?

I beleive an honest discussion puts more rewards in the jesus column then the santa column. True arbiter of justice, eternal life, pure and honest love etc etc. His list goes on and on and varies.

So if we are to believe Jesus was a man born of a virgin... Something nature could give to us... And this man performed various miracles which are likely exageratted good deeds explained by people who heard the story third and fourth hand and that he eventually died. People now believe that the consciousness that was him and represented him to us has been preserved... that is it is somehow seperate from the brain, the mind and the body. That it is a spirit. A step in faith that has now basis in reality. There is no reason to make this assumption except to begin to validate this ridiculous obviously false step. No evidence for it. It is in general a fantasy story that people are hellsworn to believe as fact. This is just the beginning of the irrational beliefs. Once you got your foot in the door they push a single creator of everything except of course himself... stories of water to wine, parting seas, young earths etc etc. Once people grasp and defend even one tenet of their faith there seems to be nothing you cant get them to ALSO defend as fact.

So yeah perhaps its not insanity but a vulnerability to suggestion? A delusion? A chained tale of emotionally accepted suggestion pushed like a parents approval onto a vulnerable mind? We are all as a race reaching and grasping and trying to explain everything. Here is an answer many accept so why not you? Why not indeed? Look at the community awaiting you with open arms, the smiling faces, the gospel of truth. Look who vehemently and arduosly we toil for the path to rightousness for the ultimate goal. Salvation. Eternal life... Its powerful stuff their selling and many are susceptible and buy it... even some know what their buying is untrue but they want to believe so bad that they just do.

Some people lie for so long that even they believe their own lie and thier sincere belief in their own created fiction can be passed on like a virus of the mind. A bad meme.
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  #6  
Old 09-23-2008, 08:59 AM
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But a meme is entirely a speculative entity. scientists cannot observe or measure it. The theory of memetics is a proto-science or pseudoscience. That was Dawkins meme theory you were referring to right?
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BalanceFx View Post
So yeah perhaps its not insanity but a vulnerability to suggestion? A delusion? A chained tale of emotionally accepted suggestion pushed like a parents approval onto a vulnerable mind? We are all as a race reaching and grasping and trying to explain everything. Here is an answer many accept so why not you? Why not indeed? Look at the community awaiting you with open arms, the smiling faces, the gospel of truth. Look who vehemently and arduosly we toil for the path to rightousness for the ultimate goal. Salvation. Eternal life... Its powerful stuff their selling and many are susceptible and buy it... even some know what their buying is untrue but they want to believe so bad that they just do.
Far, far more likely. After all, I know people who are perfectly sane who are religious. I also know of Christians who don't pay much attention to the "miracles" of Jesus and more to his philosophical teachings and parables.

On the other hand, there are some who believe as strongly as you do that what they believe is real. Don't forget that.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BalanceFx View Post
He said he was able to and still, even as an atheist, speaks in tongues. He understands it now but it strikes me that there are people who believe in revalation and faith healing and are quite hell sworn serious about it.
Really? So how would one judge whether he reall understood or not, considering that he is now prejudiced in his thinking? It seems obvious to me that although he doesn't believe in God, he does believe in speaking in tongues.

I wouldn't characterize Christians as Hell sworn but Nicky Cruz said that he had experiences of faith healing done by the power of the Devil, not by Christians of course.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:30 AM
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Really? So how would one judge whether he reall understood or not, considering that he is now prejudiced in his thinking?
If he was still a Christian, he'd be biased in the other direction...
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:30 AM
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Really? So how would one judge whether he reall understood or not, considering that he is now prejudiced in his thinking? It seems obvious to me that although he doesn't believe in God, he does believe in speaking in tongues.

I wouldn't characterize Christians as Hell sworn but Nicky Cruz said that he had experiences of faith healing done by the power of the Devil, not by Christians of course.
Perhaps you should read his account of speaking in tongues which he articulates his stance on both then and now before you state that something seems obvious.

You have read a handful of secondhand accounts from me and you have made your decisions of what seems and does not seem obvious.

What if I'm lying? What if he was not a preacher turned atheist and is the most reknown speaker of tongues in the world and a devout evangelist? Just read his account.

And you can replace hellsworn with just sworn if it pleases you. My point will hellsworn is to articulate that no matter what this is what they believe and support and argument with them will do nothing except **** them off. They already decided and are not going to reconsider anything. Even if there is no evidence or reason behind their beliefs it is theirs and their family's belief. It is the only belief they are willing to portray in public. Its the only way they can feel good about themselves. It is, so far as their mind knows, the only way. Not in all cases obviously but it is why I was condensing to hellsworn. Nothing to do with other fictional tales of daemons, demons, devils and such... just a tenacious, stubborn and absolute view that you have no right to question. (Of course you have the right but in their eyes, you do not)
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