Why do Christians rely on conversion.

[tomspug]

Originally Posted by darkendless

Shouldn't those people decide what is better for them rather than Christianity? I'm of the firm belief that if people need help they will come to church, there is no need to spread the word.

You're opinion, but if you are wrong, then what the Christians are doing is quite possibly the greatest good anyone could EVER do.

But you are right... MOST people (those who already know the message of Christ or at least understand it) can choose whether or not they need a savior on their own rite.

However, for many people, the idea of salvation, of hope, is one that is completely foreign to them, entirely new to them. No one is ramming religion down their throats. Missionaries tend to go (and stay) where they are wanted. I think the picture of what a missionary actually does, in your mind, is a little obscured by the imagination.

[darkendless]

Isn't it sort of taking advantage of people then if they have no idea about salvation? Say if you went to a remote atol in the pacific to provide medical and food aid as well as to preach, they're all going to think this God is wonderful aren't they and sumbit immediately without any need to push religion on them. Sure everything is great because they don't know any better do they, except their culture and way of life is destroyed by this new-wave of culture?
I spent to long in Norway around a lot of pagans, Christianty almost destroyed their religion through violence, i admit my opinion on missionaries is rather bias.

[tomspug]

You can either choose to judge a religion based on the majority of its accomplishments or on individual events throughout it's 2000 year history. It's your call.

I don't understand why you have to start with the assumption that people who are ignorant of Christianity are automatically stupid and foolish. Everyone is human, and we all have the cognitive ability to decide for ourselves the difference between whether or not they NEED salvation.

Say you are a man, on the street, who is ignorant of salvation. Someone comes up and tells them they need to be saved. The first response is, of course, "why"? This is the same case with an impoverished person. All they care about is physical needs. If someone tells them they can heal their body, they will be thankful. But if they tell them that their soul needs healing, he is going to ask "why"?

People don't CONVERT to Christianity because they are somehow fooled. They choose the idea of a savior, because they become convinced that there is a good reason for them to be saved. This is true of any person, regardless as to whether they are impoverished or perfectly healthy. Perhaps you yourself have never considered what exactly it is that Jesus Christ is said to provide for people. He is meant to restore a bond that was broken, between humanity and its creator. You can't just fool someone into accepting that sort of thing. It requires you to:

1) accept that there is a God.
2) accept that he is loving.
3) accept that man is fallen (i.e. sin)
4) accept that God, in love, provided man with the ability to escape sin
5) accept that this will provide more for him than physical, mental, or emotional healing ever could

That, my friend, is a lot of accepting that has to happen.

[Worshipper]

Originally Posted by darkendless

Shouldn't those people decide what is better for them rather than Christianity? I'm of the firm belief that if people need help they will come to church, there is no need to spread the word.

It kind of seems like you're trying to spread the word of non-interference or perhaps non-imposition. I imagine you're doing that because you think the world would be better and we'd all be happier if we all stopped mucking around in other people's lives and let people live how they want to live. Furthermore, I imagine you think that not enough people have truly grasped this message, and that if you spread the word, maybe a few more people will grasp it and their lives will be better and the world will be that much better for it.

And you are spreading this word. We didn't come to you for help with problems we have about interference and imposition. You saw a need, and took it upon yourself to minister to this need in your fellowmen because you care about your fellowmen.

This puts you in a good position to understand and relate to Christian missionaries. Christian missionaries spread their message because they see a need and they believe their message will provide for the need. They care about their fellowmen, just like you do. And so they go out with their message to preach just as you have.

You may think their message is wrong. They might think yours is wrong. But both you and they are taking the same basic approach with the same basic motivation. If you can see that similarity you share with them, it might help you feel a little bit better about Christian missionaries in general — though probably not the kind who proselytize at swordpoint.

[darkendless]

Originally Posted by tomspug

You can either choose to judge a religion based on the majority of its accomplishments or on individual events throughout it's 2000 year history. It's your call.

I don't understand why you have to start with the assumption that people who are ignorant of Christianity are automatically stupid and foolish. Everyone is human, and we all have the cognitive ability to decide for ourselves the difference between whether or not they NEED salvation.

Say you are a man, on the street, who is ignorant of salvation. Someone comes up and tells them they need to be saved. The first response is, of course, "why"? This is the same case with an impoverished person. All they care about is physical needs. If someone tells them they can heal their body, they will be thankful. But if they tell them that their soul needs healing, he is going to ask "why"?

People don't CONVERT to Christianity because they are somehow fooled. They choose the idea of a savior, because they become convinced that there is a good reason for them to be saved. This is true of any person, regardless as to whether they are impoverished or perfectly healthy. Perhaps you yourself have never considered what exactly it is that Jesus Christ is said to provide for people. He is meant to restore a bond that was broken, between humanity and its creator. You can't just fool someone into accepting that sort of thing. It requires you to:

1) accept that there is a God.
2) accept that he is loving.
3) accept that man is fallen (i.e. sin)
4) accept that God, in love, provided man with the ability to escape sin
5) accept that this will provide more for him than physical, mental, or emotional healing ever could

That, my friend, is a lot of accepting that has to happen.

Thats true, in the formation of my stance i have taken the worst situations. Such examples are intolerance to Paganism during the reign of the first Christian Emperor Constantine I (Rome CE 350a.d) and the mass conversion of scandanavia a few hundred years ago.
To put it simply i resent conversion as i have seen the hallmarks Christianity has left on history and historical artefacts during "conversions" of cultures. At least these days the impact of conversion is basically unseen, for there are very few cultures left to conquer.
I also have to question conversions for the simple fact of desperation. Would you not, as a last chance effort to get back on your feet, accept the help of the church and thus accept jesus christ? I'm suspicious of the converted as many of them had no one else to turn to, and thus i do not believe they are converted mentally, only physically. A stupid example is Borat, but it is an example none the less.

[darkendless]

Originally Posted by Worshipper

It kind of seems like you're trying to spread the word of non-interference or perhaps non-imposition. I imagine you're doing that because you think the world would be better and we'd all be happier if we all stopped mucking around in other people's lives and let people live how they want to live. Furthermore, I imagine you think that not enough people have truly grasped this message, and that if you spread the word, maybe a few more people will grasp it and their lives will be better and the world will be that much better for it.

And you are spreading this word. We didn't come to you for help with problems we have about interference and imposition. You saw a need, and took it upon yourself to minister to this need in your fellowmen because you care about your fellowmen.

This puts you in a good position to understand and relate to Christian missionaries. Christian missionaries spread their message because they see a need and they believe their message will provide for the need. They care about their fellowmen, just like you do. And so they go out with their message to preach just as you have.

You may think their message is wrong. They might think yours is wrong. But both you and they are taking the same basic approach with the same basic motivation. If you can see that similarity you share with them, it might help you feel a little bit better about Christian missionaries in general — though probably not the kind who proselytize at swordpoint.

I don't have a message only an opinion. I know people will not like it, but at least i do not try and convert people with it. I'm just simply stating that i think people shouldn't go out there and try and bring people to Christ. I don't care about my fellow men to be honest, i care about my family and close friends, but it is not up to me to influence their decisions.
For the record i do think the world would be better off, the world worked fine before Christianity killed off it's rivals.

[Draka]

Why are there missionaries that go door to door in the U.S. then? It's not likely that many U.S. citizens haven't heard of Christianity and have a basic understanding of it. Chances are, if they are not Christian, there is cause for that. The only way I can see converting someone is through manipulation or fear. Take someone who is downtrodden at the moment and give them hope...they will buy whatever you sell them to hold onto that hope. Tell the gullible that they will go to a place of everlasting torment and misery unless they believe a certain way...poof, a convert.

Will I generally be nice to missionaries that come to my door? Yes, for the most part it depends on how pushy they might be. Do I have respect for what they are ultimately trying to accomplish...nope.