What is the Jewish view on the World to Come?

[Yid613]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I'm not at all sure about that. The Oral Law was given when the Bible was. So the laws and traditions may not be IN the Bible, but they definitely aren't POST Biblical. They were there at the same time as the Bible.

Much of the Oral Law can be expounded from the Torah also so definitely Biblical.

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

That is the Orthodox view. It is also a baseless one ...

Our understanding of this is base on the several thousand years of work by some of the greatest minds in history with resources we can only dream of. We are luck to live in a time when so much of this work is so readily available.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Yid613

Much of the Oral Law can be expounded from the Torah also so definitely Biblical.

Nonsense.

Originally Posted by Yid613

Our understanding of this is base on the several thousand years of work by some of the greatest minds in history with resources we can only dream of.

Rashi on Genesis 1:14 ...

Let there be luminaries Heb., יְהִי מְאֹרֹת It [the word, מְאֹרֹת is written without a“vav,” [thus, the word can be מְאֵרֹת meaning curses] because it [the fourth day] is a cursed day when children become ill with croup. This is what we learned (Ta’anith 27b): “on the fourth day [of the week], they [the men of the ma’amad] would fast so that children should not become ill with croup.”

Your obsequious appeal to authority is shameful.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

Nonsense.

Rashi on Genesis 1:14 ...

Let there be luminaries Heb., יְהִי מְאֹרֹת It [the word, מְאֹרֹת is written without a“vav,” [thus, the word can be מְאֵרֹת meaning curses] because it [the fourth day] is a cursed day when children become ill with croup. This is what we learned (Ta’anith 27b): “on the fourth day [of the week], they [the men of the ma’amad] would fast so that children should not become ill with croup.”

Your obsequious appeal to authority is shameful.

Jay, I usually respect what you have to say, as you seem to be very educated. But it is very disrespectful to call our adherence to our religion and belief system "obsequious."

Furthermore, I'm aware that you don't find the Oral Law compelling. The point of this thread is not to prove the veracity of the Oral Law. Rather, the point was to educate people about the religious Jewish point of view of the World to Come, as Heneni asked.

No one is asking you to believe what we do. Give us a modicum of respect, and don't insult our intelligence by claiming that what we believe is "nonsense" because you don't believe it.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Jay, I usually respect what you have to say, as you seem to be very educated. But it is very disrespectful to call our adherence to our religion and belief system "obsequious."

To argue that current views on the afterlife are not post biblical because Jewish sages are really super and we should be super happy to have them is utter nonsense. There is no requirement that you park your brain at the entrance of the beit midrash. The appeal to authority was thoroughly obsequious and fallacious.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

No one is asking you to believe what we do. Give us a modicum of respect, and don't insult our intelligence by claiming that what we believe is "nonsense" because you don't believe it.

It's nonsense because you cannot support it. Tell me about about the fourth day being cursed. Is that also to be uncritically accepted because "our understanding of this is base on the several thousand years of work by some of the greatest minds in history with resources we can only dream of"?

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

To argue that current views on the afterlife are not post biblical because Jewish sages are really super and we should be super happy to have them is utter nonsense.

Huh? Where do you get that?

I said the ideas are not post-Biblical, because the ideas therein were handed down at the same time as the Bible was. I don't know where you are coming up with that silliness.

There is no requirement that you park your brain at the entrance of the beit midrash.

Surely you jest. If you think that anyone who walks into a Beit Midrash "parks their brain at the entrance" and is devoid of critical thinking, it just shows that you have never actually BEEN to a Beit Midrash.

Just because we don't come to your conclusions doesn't mean that we don't actually think.

The appeal to authority was thoroughly obsequious and fallacious.

You know, Jews are aware of the fact that God gave the Torah to Moses on Mount Sinai. It is the way that Jews accept authority. No one had the authority to change what Moses gave to the elders and the prophets.

There is a line of direct authority and who had it. No one from later generations had as much authority as people from earlier generations, as the later generations are farther removed from the initial revelation God gave on Sinai.

No one from the time of the Mishnah had the authority of the prophets. No one from the time of the Gemara had the authority to challenge the people from the Mishna. No one from the Ga'onim had the authority to challenge the people from the Gemara. And this chain of authority does actually come to this day.

However, the concept of accepting authority is not a simple matter, as there are all kinds of things to learn, and the people of each generation did not always agree. Therefore, figuring everything out is not a simple feat, but it isn't impossible, either.

And no, it is neither obsequious nor fallacious.

You just don't get it. That works, too.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

It's nonsense because you cannot support it. Tell me about about the fourth day being cursed.

What on earth are you on about?

Is that also to be uncritically accepted because "our understanding of this is base on the several thousand years of work by some of the greatest minds in history with resources we can only dream of"?

Again, it isn't just "uncritically accepted." There are lots of opinions and teachings to sift through, as both sides of every argument are presented. But the fact is that the decisions made are final. And just understanding it is not mindless, but takes great toil to learn and understand it.

The fact that we don't turn around and say, "But where does it say this? And if you don't prove it to my satisfaction, I won't believe it!" doesn't mean that we aren't thinking critically. It means that we acknowledge that there are things we may simply not be able to understand.

But none of it is simple minded.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I said the ideas are not post-Biblical, because the ideas therein were handed down at the same time as the Bible was. I don't know where you are coming up with that silliness. ...

You know, Jews are aware of the fact that God gave the Torah to Moses on Mount Sinai. It is the way that Jews accept authority. No one had the authority to change what Moses gave to the elders and the prophets.

As you wish ...