Religious Education Forum  

Welcome to Religious Forums
Welcome Guest to ReligiousForums.com . You are currently not registered. When you become registered you will be able to interact with our large base of already registered users discussing topics. Some annoying Ads will also disappear when you register. Registering doesn't cost a thing and only takes a few seconds. We provide areas to chat and debate all World Religions. Please go to our register page!

Home Who's Online Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Religious Education Forum / Religious Topics / Religious Debates
Sitemap Popular RF Forums REGISTER Search Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-12-2008, 10:20 AM
tomspug's Avatar
tomspug Offline
Religion: Christianity
Title:A Child Inside
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Roseville, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,242
Frubals: 1671758
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
Default What Messianic Prophecies Did Jesus NOT Fulfill?

One of the certainties of faith that Christians point to is the fulfillment of prophecy, particularly through Jesus, who is such an important figure. Most of the Messianic prophecies were written hundreds of years before Jesus's birth, in one form or the other, and were carried on accurately throughout Israel's history, passed meticulously from one generation to the next.

So then, since this is such an important staple of Christianity and apparently an evidence for its divine origin, were there any prophecies of messianic quality that Jesus did NOT fulfill?
__________________
Did you read the OP?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-12-2008, 10:51 AM
9-10ths_Penguin's Avatar
9-10ths_Penguin Offline
Religion: Lapsed Atheist
Title:1/10 Boltzmann Chicken
Tolerance Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto area, Canada
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,650
Frubals: 4014934
9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore
9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore
9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomspug View Post
So then, since this is such an important staple of Christianity and apparently an evidence for its divine origin, were there any prophecies of messianic quality that Jesus did NOT fulfill?
I've seen the list somewhere (and it's a long one). One prophesy about the coming of the Messiah I do remember is that one sign of the Messiah would be that all Jews would know the Torah without study.

I don't remember the book, chapter and verse offhand, though.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-12-2008, 10:58 AM
Halcyon's Avatar
Halcyon Offline
Religion: Tramampolines!
Title:Lord of the Badgers
Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,210
Frubals: 1798966
Halcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal Whore
Halcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal Whore
Halcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal WhoreHalcyon is a Frubal Whore
Default

I did a quick google search, apparently these are the most obvious;

Quote:
World Peace did not come at the time of Jesus (Isaiah 2:1-4), the entire world did not acknowledge G-d as the one true G-d (Zechariah 14:9), the Holy Temple was not rebuilt (Ezekiel 37: 26-28) and Jesus did not gather the Jewish people from all of the earth to land of Israel (Isaiah 11:10-12).
From Messianic Jewish - Frequently Asked Questions
__________________
Artificial Life on your PC
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-12-2008, 11:00 AM
9-10ths_Penguin's Avatar
9-10ths_Penguin Offline
Religion: Lapsed Atheist
Title:1/10 Boltzmann Chicken
Tolerance Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto area, Canada
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,650
Frubals: 4014934
9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore
9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore
9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore9-10ths_Penguin is a Frubal Whore
Default

FWIW, I didn't think any Christian denomination claimed that Jesus fulfilled all Jewish Messianic prophecies already. I thought the common position was that those left unfulfilled to date would be fulfilled at the Second Coming.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-12-2008, 11:04 AM
tomspug's Avatar
tomspug Offline
Religion: Christianity
Title:A Child Inside
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Roseville, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,242
Frubals: 1671758
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
Default

Alright then, I guess, aside from the ones that WOULD be fulfilled in the Second Coming described by the NT then...
__________________
Did you read the OP?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-12-2008, 01:10 PM
Yid613's Avatar
Yid613 Offline
Religion: Jewish
Title:Sophmore Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Gender: Undisclosed
Posts: 201
Frubals: 42402
Yid613 has much to be proud of
Yid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud ofYid613 has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin View Post
I've seen the list somewhere (and it's a long one). One prophesy about the coming of the Messiah I do remember is that one sign of the Messiah would be that all Jews would know the Torah without study.

I don't remember the book, chapter and verse offhand, though.
Here is a good one with Scriptural references.

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18)

The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

The Temple will be rebuilt resuming many of the suspended mitzvot (Ezekiel 40)

He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

Jews will know the Torah without study (Jeremiah 31:33)[3]

He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-13-2008, 07:55 AM
Oberon Offline
Title:Sophmore Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 107
Frubals: 14435
Oberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to allOberon is a name known to all
Default

The difficulty here is it appears there was not really a unified expectation of who or what the messiah was supposed to be during Jesus' day. However, the most important expectation was the unification of Israel, and rebirth of the Davidic line. Jesus did neither of those things.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2008, 09:23 AM
tomspug's Avatar
tomspug Offline
Religion: Christianity
Title:A Child Inside
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Roseville, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,242
Frubals: 1671758
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
Default

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18)

This one was actually fulfilled, btw.
__________________
Did you read the OP?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2008, 09:31 AM
tomspug's Avatar
tomspug Offline
Religion: Christianity
Title:A Child Inside
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Roseville, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,242
Frubals: 1671758
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore
tomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whoretomspug is a Frubal Whore