The one true faith! (beliefs, hell, agnostic, God, religions)

[chuck010342]

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

Simply being a human being who is thinking their own thoughts makes them great.

Lets reverse this statement.

Hitler by simply being a human being who is thinking thier own thoughts makes him great. You can do the same with Stalin Or Osama Bin Ladan.

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

You want your own interpretation of truth.

No I don't I honestly do not want my interpretation I want the truth where ever it leads, If it is proven that God does not exsist then I would become an athiest, if Buddism shows itself to be the right path then I will follow it.

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

You are not willing to accept that there may be other truths.

"other truths" is the same thing as relativism would you agree to that?

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by chuck010342

Lets reverse this statement.

Hitler by simply being a human being who is thinking thier own thoughts makes him great. You can do the same with Stalin Or Osama Bin Ladan.

A good point. However, in the original context, it was being used in contrast with mocking a person for saying that they would "follow my own initiative". (If you weren't mocking the person, then I would have used a different phrase than "what makes you so great?") The moment a persons "own initiative" begins interfereing with another persons, then it would logically follow that it becomes of public concern.

Originally Posted by chuck010342

No I don't I honestly do not want my interpretation I want the truth where ever it leads, If it is proven that God does not exsist then I would become an athiest, if Buddism shows itself to be the right path then I will follow it.

A very admirable quality, though please remember that the only thing that people here at RF have is what you have posted. You seem to be willing to present your side of matters, but you do not always seem willing to listen. This may just be the perception that I've gotten, and I do apologize if it is untrue.

Originally Posted by chuck010342

"other truths" is the same thing as relativism would you agree to that?

Honestly, I don't know. (If there's a school for relativists, no one's showed me it, and (again) it's not as if it's my religion.) The way I said it probably was relativist, that simply being who I am, and if that offended, I'm sorry. My intent was not that you should think of other religions or faiths as being inherently equal to your own, but that perhaps considering that those following them believe them to be would probably save you some time and energy.

[oracle]

I would say there is one true faith, but at the same time, their isn't. It's hard to grasp the meanings of these words. Our perceptions are unique as our fingerprints, and religion is as diverse as the people who are religious. In reality, we all percieve truth differently, and although we can agree on much, no two perceptions are ever the same. We are confined by the limitations of our mind, and what exists outside the mind does not exist because it cannot be percieved. No human can accuse another of being ignorant and exclude him or herself, because we are all ignorant in one way or another. Neither can someone claim that they are aware of all possible truths, because we are all limited. Truth is always changing, always evolving, we forever embrace the truth, but All truth can never be embraced. To seek truth is an endless journey which has no end, but an endless sea of infinite beginnings.

[chuck010342]

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

A good point. However, in the original context, it was being used in contrast with mocking a person for saying that they would "follow my own initiative".

Theres that word agian: Mock. Now I don't understand this, Mock is something I would never want to do. if somebody wants to follow there own initiative its fine with me but what I'm saying is that Following ones own initiative is not the truth.

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

(If you weren't mocking the person, then I would have used a different phrase than "what makes you so great?") The moment a persons "own initiative" begins interfereing with another persons, then it would logically follow that it becomes of public concern.

When I say "what makes you so great" I don't mean to mock anybody or anything. Understand that I am asking a question. I ask alot of questions because it forces the questioner to open up into his own assumptions which is what I am trying to get at. The other reason is because my master almost always answered a question with another question, and I will follow my masters example.

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

A very admirable quality, though please remember that the only thing that people here at RF have is what you have posted. You seem to be willing to present your side of matters, but you do not always seem willing to listen. This may just be the perception that I've gotten, and I do apologize if it is untrue.

Like I said before "nobody cares about me" They don't care because I don't like 'beating around the bush' or Exchanging complementaries with people I am debating because they get in the way of the underlying arguments which I with the put forward. Furhtermore I am willing to listen because I respond to other posts don't I?

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

Honestly, I don't know. (If there's a school for relativists, no one's showed me it, and (again) it's not as if it's my religion.)

relativism is more of a philiosophy then a religion any book on philiosophy could give you names of Good philiosophers to read about it.

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

The way I said it probably was relativist, that simply being who I am, and if that offended, I'm sorry.

If you say your a relatvisit that doesn't offend me at all. you can be a relatvist but you will see that logicaly it doesn't make good sense at all.

My intent was not that you should think of other religions or faiths as being inherently equal to your own, but that perhaps considering that those following them believe them to be would probably save you some time and energy.[/quote]

[chuck010342]

Originally Posted by oracle

I would say there is one true faith, but at the same time, their isn't.

isn't that a countradiction?

Originally Posted by oracle

We are confined by the limitations of our mind,

exactly which is why we shouldn't trust our mind fully.

Originally Posted by oracle

and what exists outside the mind does not exist because it cannot be percieved.

God is outside the mind. However God understands this so he communicates to us thru the bible.

Originally Posted by oracle

No human can accuse another of being ignorant and exclude him or herself, because we are all ignorant in one way or another.

Amen

Originally Posted by oracle

Neither can someone claim that they are aware of all possible truths, because we are all limited.

Amen

Originally Posted by oracle

Truth is always changing, always evolving, we forever embrace the truth, but All truth can never be embraced. To seek truth is an endless journey which has no end, but an endless sea of infinite beginnings.

Think about this statement logically. If Truth is always changing then why should I take your statements as true?

[oracle]

Originally Posted by chuck010342

isn't that a countradiction?

Yes it is, but like I said after that sentence, it's a hard concept to understand. God is truth, but God cannot be fully grasped. Although we are aware of God, and he makes himself known through His word, God exists outside the human mind and therefore cannot fully be percieved. He is ever incomprehensible. We simply know Him as the Father.

Originally Posted by chuck010342

exactly which is why we shouldn't trust our mind fully.

Yes, we can never trust our own minds fully due to our limitations. Nothing is ever as it seems, and what if all that you deemed to be truth is just an illusion? Your perception is your ultimate reality. However your reality is not my reality

Originally Posted by chuck010342

Think about this statement logically. If Truth is always changing then why should I take your statements as true?

You are trying to be politically correct. Forget politics, you know the meaning to this sentence already.

Let me give you an analogy. Say that a child percieves the red hot coils on a burning stove as "pleasing to the eye". However this child has never encountered anything like that before. So truth here, is that this red coil is harmless. The child then touches the coil out of curiousity, and gets burned, and by this painful experience the child learns never to touch it again. So here, truth changes, because the value placed on this red coil changes from harmless to harmful.

So the fact is, is that truth is always changing, but it is our learning experiences that changes truth. therefore, because of our limitations, All truths can never be grasped, but the journey for truth is one without an end, but is an endless sea of new beginnings.

Therefore, there is All truth some of which can be grasped, and yet there can never be one true faith, because truth is forever changing and evolving, and no two persons percieve truth alike.

It was a popular belief that the earth was flat, however did that turn out to be true?

If we were not bound by our limitations, then there could be one true faith because we could grasp ALL truth.

True condemnation is the conformity to ignorance, and by believing in "one true faith", we limit ourselves to one perspective. To gain truth one must not limit themselves, but examine everything from all sides. To see only one side of a six sided square is condemnation, or to see the shadow and not the object casting the shadow is condemnation. We are limited, but we limit ourselves even further by believing in "one true faith" and deeming all others as having no truth. My wisdom is from grasping all faiths and examining the square from all sides, I do not limit myself. Although I am very opinionated and stronly voice my opinions, I am very open to the fact that I may be entirely wrong. It is the ego that causes this downfall and binds us in ignorance (I'm write and you're wrong).

Originally Posted by oracle

No human can accuse another of being ignorant and exclude him or herself, because we are all ignorant in one way or another. Neither can someone claim that they are aware of all possible truths, because we are all limited.

Take my analogy about the child. What if your one true faith is that the red coils were harmless, and yet all other faiths stated that they were harmful? But if you listen only to your opinion and dismiss all others, you will get burned.

Don't limit yourself, examine from all sides. Most likely someone who claims that their faith is the one true faith has never studied any faiths outside their own.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by chuck010342

you follow your own initiative? Why? what makes you so great that you should follow yourself?

I'm not saying i'm greater or superior to any man, and certainly not over G-d. chuck do you just sit there when your hungry and wait for food to appear before you? Do you let your car's transmission go out, waiting for an angel to magically fix it? Do you sit back as the Tsunami victims suffer and just pray that something good will happen?

I think HaShem wants us to make choices to better our lives and the lives of those around us. If i'm hungry i get some food. My car is messed up, i take it to my mechanic. When i see what has happened in South East Asia i donate to Magen David Adom, an israeli based charity which has donated thousands of dollars to the tsunami effort.

Do i pray before i eat, thanking HaShem for the food of the earth? Yes. Do i thank Him when i get my car back and it runs well again? Yes. And do i pray for the victims of this horrible disaster? You damn skippy!

The point is to not just pray, but to be active and do something about the things you see in your world. That's what i'm talking about chuck.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by chuck010342

how can they when scripture clearly teaches otherwise?

Whose scripture? not jewish scripture.

Originally Posted by chuck010342

The reason is because of what we want. You want opinion, I want Truth.

I wanted opinions on my use of that particular metaphor for this discussion.

[chuck010342]

Originally Posted by jewscout

I'm not saying i'm greater or superior to any man, and certainly not over G-d.

Then why follow your own iniative if its not greater then any other?

Originally Posted by jewscout

chuck do you just sit there when your hungry and wait for food to appear before you? Do you let your car's transmission go out, waiting for an angel to magically fix it? Do you sit back as the Tsunami victims suffer and just pray that something good will happen?

you have stumbled on a very good issue that I have with my fellow theists. You see I don't just sit and pray I actually do things to help those I can I go out into the world and I teach them. I can't stand it when we pray in school its a waste of time in most respects.

[chuck010342]

Originally Posted by jewscout

Whose scripture? not jewish scripture.

The jews still believe in the first five books of Moses don't they? the writings? (by which I mean the prophets)

Originally Posted by jewscout

I wanted opinions on my use of that particular metaphor for this discussion.

Just understand where I'm coming from, that I believe in absolute truth and I am willing to defend it theologically and philosophically at any time and this website is a wonderful place to do it.