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  #11  
Old 08-10-2008, 11:48 PM
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I think a Christian is anyone who believes in salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ.
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2008, 07:29 AM
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Having been BOTH a JW and an LDS member, I can answer from personal experience, that yes, they are Christian in that they believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Both JW and LDS have some of the most earnest and devout people I have ever met; but, unfortunately, sincerity is not an idicator of religious truth. Where the term breaks down is when you delve deeper into WHO the person of Christ is to those faiths compared to more Orthodox/mainstream Christian religions.
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2008, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mestemia View Post
A Christian is anyone whose belief system has Jesus Christ in its hierarchy who claims the title/label 'Christian.'
That would make Muslim's Christians too, Mestemia.

There are plenty of good conflicts between the LDS church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Evangelicals (as is the modern term for us). If you'd like to learn more about some of the debates, there are some good ones on this forum (although most of them are LDS related since there are few JW's here), although books are probably a better source for your own personal journey.

It's not as simple as a 'yes' or 'no'. It's a discussion on how you define 'Christian'. For example, is a Christian someone who believes that Jesus and God are synonymous? Is a Christian someone who believes that salvation is available to ALL believers in Christ? Is a Christian someone who believes that there is only ONE God? Is a Christian someone who does not believe that the fall of man was bad? These are serious questions to consider.
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  #14  
Old 08-11-2008, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tomspug View Post
That would make Muslim's Christians too, Mestemia.
Well, no... I doubt they claim the title/label "Christian".
Quote:
It's not as simple as a 'yes' or 'no'.
Agreed... and while I personally respect anyone's right to call themselves whatever they choose, I think an objective look is a bit more critical.

If someone decides today that they want to start playing a game.... on a baseball field..... using nine players in the field.... and using a dead fish as the "ball" and a hockey stick for the "bat", can one honestly claim that to be "baseball" >>???

The Creeds of the historical Church defined the "basics" of the Christian faith... so while I again respect a persons right to call themselves whatever they choose, what it means to be titled a "Christian" was decided upon long ago... and I don't think novel changes should be grouped together with the historical faith.

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  #15  
Old 08-11-2008, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tomspug View Post
That would make Muslim's Christians too, Mestemia.
I do not know of a single Muslim who claims the title/label of Christian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomspug View Post
There are plenty of good conflicts between the LDS church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Evangelicals (as is the modern term for us). If you'd like to learn more about some of the debates, there are some good ones on this forum (although most of them are LDS related since there are few JW's here), although books are probably a better source for your own personal journey.
Yes, I know.
I started this thread:
the divisions of Christianity
Almost two years ago and it merely showed that not only is Christianity divided, but that many people refuse to even acknowledge the fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomspug View Post
It's not as simple as a 'yes' or 'no'. It's a discussion on how you define 'Christian'. For example, is a Christian someone who believes that Jesus and God are synonymous? Is a Christian someone who believes that salvation is available to ALL believers in Christ? Is a Christian someone who believes that there is only ONE God? Is a Christian someone who does not believe that the fall of man was bad? These are serious questions to consider.
They are only serious to those who take them seriously.
Does one have to agree with the non-Biblical Trinity theory in order to be a Christian?

Funny how so many people want to point out the differences and claim said differences make another persons beliefs 'wrong'.
Funny how they do this without showing how their beliefs are 'right'.

Without showing which belief is the "one true path" all they are doing is pointing out differences. Nothing more.
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2008, 06:45 PM
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Well, it all depends on what you define 'Christian' to mean. If you define 'Christian' as anyone who calls themselves a Christian, or anyone says they follow a figure-head named Christ Jesus, then yes, I guess that Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians (and I say 'guess' because Mormons tend to deny anything you say they believe).

Dictionary.com defines 'Christian' as "a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity", and defines 'Christianity as "the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches". Both of these definitions are pretty vague, which is expected since they're aren't trying to teach any theology, just give the general idea.

Personally, I define a Christian as anyone who accepts ALL of the following as true:

1. There was, is, and always will be only one God, as described in the Bible.
2. Christ Jesus is God incarnate who came to pay the punishment of sin in our place.
3. We are forgiven of all our sins when we have faith in Christ because he paid our punishment, and not because of our own actions.
4. Christ, and Christ alone without Mary, intercedes between us and God.
5. That obeying God is more important than even your own life.

This, of course, excludes Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness(ism?). Christianity, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness(ism?) are all mutually exclusive to one another. To be a faithful member of one of them you must deny at least one core belief of all the others.
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2008, 02:51 AM
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Well, it all depends on what you define 'Christian' to mean. If you define 'Christian' as anyone who calls themselves a Christian, or anyone says they follow a figure-head named Christ Jesus, then yes, I guess that Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians (and I say 'guess' because Mormons tend to deny anything you say they believe).

Dictionary.com defines 'Christian' as "a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity", and defines 'Christianity as "the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches". Both of these definitions are pretty vague, which is expected since they're aren't trying to teach any theology, just give the general idea.

Personally, I define a Christian as anyone who accepts ALL of the following as true:

1. There was, is, and always will be only one God, as described in the Bible.
2. Christ Jesus is God incarnate who came to pay the punishment of sin in our place.
3. We are forgiven of all our sins when we have faith in Christ because he paid our punishment, and not because of our own actions.
4. Christ, and Christ alone without Mary, intercedes between us and God.
5. That obeying God is more important than even your own life.

This, of course, excludes Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness(ism?). Christianity, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness(ism?) are all mutually exclusive to one another. To be a faithful member of one of them you must deny at least one core belief of all the others.
Interesting.
i wonder where God/Jesus/Holy Spirit set these conditions...
Are they in the Bible?
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  #18  
Old 08-13-2008, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ratiocinative View Post
Personally, I define a Christian as anyone who accepts ALL of the following as true:

1. There was, is, and always will be only one God, as described in the Bible.
2. Christ Jesus is God incarnate who came to pay the punishment of sin in our place.
3. We are forgiven of all our sins when we have faith in Christ because he paid our punishment, and not because of our own actions.
4. Christ, and Christ alone without Mary, intercedes between us and God.
5. That obeying God is more important than even your own life.

This, of course, excludes Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness(ism?). Christianity, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness(ism?) are all mutually exclusive to one another. To be a faithful member of one of them you must deny at least one core belief of all the others.
Actually, Mormon's don't have a problem with that list. We may define some of the terms there a bit differently, but not all that much.

I always find it a bit humorous when someone sets up a definition of "Christian" that excluded Catholics. If anyone gets the rights to the title "Christian" it is the Catholics (both the Eastern and Western varieties).
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  #19  
Old 08-13-2008, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SoyLeche View Post
I always find it a bit humorous when someone sets up a definition of "Christian" that excluded Catholics. If anyone gets the rights to the title "Christian" it is the Catholics (both the Eastern and Western varieties).
I find it rather comical when people present all manner of conditional modifiers that HAVE to be met before one can be a "Christian" yet do not supply any scriptures to support it.

Now to be fair to Ratiocinative, since they have not been back to this thread (as indicated by no further posts, I shall wait and see if they have anything to support their list of conditions and if said support actually supports them.
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  #20  
Old 08-13-2008, 08:05 PM
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well ratiocinatives list was his admitted 'personal opinion' which i guess he is welcome to have.i guess some people feel the need to 'narrow the field' to make themselves feel more 'special in Gods eyes'.of course that is just my personal opinion......many people seem to feel that God only loves 'their church'.
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