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  #21  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:01 AM
tariqkhwaja Offline
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My problem with miracles and faith is people see what they want to see, they hear what they want to hear, they attribute fortune to God's will and they continue to pray for lost causes. Thats how blind a lot of faith is.
Valid point. But take the cases of the miracles that religions claim. If you assume that the examples presented in various religious books of miracles were facts then surely, such miracles have to be attributed to Divine intervention. For example, we read about the miracle of Hazrat Hajra (mother of Ismael) in the Quran who went to and fro two mountains seven times in search of water for her little baby. Eventually, water sprung right under the baby's feet.

See when something like that happens. And happens quite a lot in your life. Then it would take a really dishonest person to not believe in Divine Interference. By claiming that miracles still exist I do not wish to move you away from skepticism. Be a skeptic and then the miracle will be even more fulfilling.
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:07 AM
cardero's Avatar
cardero Offline
Religion: Patrickism
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There are also other ways to abuse belief. When YOU have so much faith in YOUR belief that it is not only detrimental to YOUR well-BEing but the well-BEing of others. They also close themselves off to re-creation, to finding the TRUE UNDERSTANDING in the PURPOSE of their beliefs. This is called “believing blindly.”

HELLO IT'S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Belief, Faith , Hope and Joy
Pg: 165
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:45 AM
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darkendless Offline
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darkendless thinks frubals grow on trees
darkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on trees
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Originally Posted by tariqkhwaja View Post
Valid point. But take the cases of the miracles that religions claim. If you assume that the examples presented in various religious books of miracles were facts then surely, such miracles have to be attributed to Divine intervention. For example, we read about the miracle of Hazrat Hajra (mother of Ismael) in the Quran who went to and fro two mountains seven times in search of water for her little baby. Eventually, water sprung right under the baby's feet.

See when something like that happens. And happens quite a lot in your life. Then it would take a really dishonest person to not believe in Divine Interference. By claiming that miracles still exist I do not wish to move you away from skepticism. Be a skeptic and then the miracle will be even more fulfilling.
I do not dismiss miracles, but i assure you it would take a lot to move me. Im one of those people who see's no point in faith other than an interesting topic of debate. Unlike the faithful i will not follow blindly without evidence so to speak, it takes more than a book to convince my stubborn mind. Another thing is the legitamacy of miracles as i spoke of above, sadly people are not truthful when it comes to their experiences with higher powers.
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by darkendless View Post
sadly people are not truthful when it comes to their experiences with higher powers.
Why do you say that? Why assume that people are lying?
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  #25  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:50 AM
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darkendless thinks frubals grow on trees
darkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on treesdarkendless thinks frubals grow on trees
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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Why do you say that? Why assume that people are lying?
$ <-- That sign says it all
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  #26  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:52 AM
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What aobut people who aren't selling their testimonies? We do exist, after all, and I'd be willing to bet we outnumber the frauds.
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  #27  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
What aobut people who aren't selling their testimonies? We do exist, after all, and I'd be willing to bet we outnumber the frauds.
What about born again Christians who have visions of Christ to rid themselves of surface guilt? They do it to gain the trust of their peers.
As i stated earlier i guarantee a lot of people choose what they see, they see what they want to see to feel closer to God for whatever reason
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  #28  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by darkendless View Post
What about born again Christians who have visions of Christ to rid themselves of surface guilt? They do it to gain the trust of their peers.
As i stated earlier i guarantee a lot of people choose what they see, they see what they want to see to feel closer to God for whatever reason
I guarantee YOU that I did no such thing. I was an atheist when I had my theophany.
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  #29  
Old 07-22-2008, 01:00 AM
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