The Immorality of Pre-marital sex, Extra-marital sex, Homosexuality, and Promiscuousness in General (Earth, evolution)

[tariqkhwaja]

Assalamualaikum.

The following is taken from pages 86 to 88 of the book http://www.alislam.org/library/books...raryIssues.pdf by Mirza Tahir Ahmad, the 4th Caliph of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. I only pray that the time everyone spends on reading the whole passage quoted here only gives the reader the thirst to read more from the link.

Man cannot have unlimited and unrestricted pleasure however he may desire it. All he can do is to swap certain values and options. A society which seeks to escape responsibility or the realities of life with the help of opiates and drugs; a society which is obsessed by sex, vain excitement and exhilaration; a society where the tastes are wilfully perverted to suit an artificially created market for new instruments and toys of pleasure which are fit only to create excitement and thirst for more; a market masterminded by powerful syndicates whose sole purpose is to amass wealth; such a society chooses all this at the cost of nobler human values, peace of mind and security in a society as a whole. You cannot possess both simultaneously. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

The emphasis of Islam is exactly the opposite. Pleasure indeed—but not at the cost of peace of mind and the security of society as a whole. All such tendencies, which if unchecked, are likely to lead to a gradual disintegration of family life and promote selfishness, irresponsibility, vulgarity, crime and violence, are strongly
discouraged.

The climates created by the two philosophies are poles apart.

It astounds me how some people believe that by raising ambitions or giving free reign to desires in a society, they can ever hopefully promise peace of mind. No society in the world, however economically sound it may be, can support unlimited and unbridled generation of lustful desires.

Even in the richest societies of the world, there are always haves and have-nots. Those who are deprived of the most basic amenities of life make a much larger section of the society than the comparatively smaller number of those who can afford to pay for what they like.

Even that is questionable because it seems that with the growth of wealth, desires also rise and perhaps even the richest cannot fully realise all their dreams. But the case of the comparatively poorer majority is worse. They cannot even have access to the basic amenities of life, not to speak of the luxuries the affluent society can afford. It is the poor with whose emotions and desires modern media plays havoc.
Day in, day out it brings to their squalid dwellings, rosy images of a glorious lifestyle with palatial homes, fabulous gardens, fleets of luxury cars, helicopters, private planes and an army of attendants. The lifestyles of Hollywood and Beverly Hills with revelries, dances, merrymaking parties, or the life in casinos, gambling houses, or all that soap operas can conjure up, are temptations to which the poorest have access. Yet few, even amongst the richest, can ever dream of achieving this heaven on earth. Such people would most certainly lose interest in their poor coarse surroundings. The home and hearth would no longer have any appeal to them. Lack of culture and civilisation stand juxtaposed to this rosy vision, and, in this context, the realities of their own life begin to lose all meaning. If this were the ultimate

achievement of a society fed on vain pleasures and unreal visions, warmth and the peace of home and hearth all become increasingly illusionary. Then there would be nothing left for them to live for in the future.

[Halcyon]

There is no reason to place homosexuality beside fornication, adultery and promiscuity, the former is entirely unrelated to the latter three.

[doppelgänger]

I can see why people clinging to an age old mythology would really dig this sort of thing, but to me it just seems seriously out of touch, intellectually dishonest, and arrogant.

Sexuality, by and large, is driven by aesthetics. The sexual aesthetics and corresponding behavior between consenting adults is nobody's business but theirs, unless they willingly make it otherwise.

You get to worship how you want, no matter how silly I think it is. And I get to behave sexually in an adult, consensual relationship no matter how much you disapprove.

[mball1297]

Now can we have some reasons behind this type of thinking? I don't even see anything in there specifically about homosexuality, promiscuity, extra-marital sex or pre-marital sex. I definitely don't see anything that resembles a reason, much less a rational reason for what is claimed in the passage, or for the argument against the ideas in the title of this thread.

[Sunstone]

An aversion to pleasure is called "anhedonism", and it is a symptom of certain mood disorders, such as depression.

[tariqkhwaja]

An aversion to pleasure is called "anhedonism", and it is a symptom of certain mood disorders, such as depression.

Remember the claim here is not that one should become a monk. Nor is it that one should let his/her carnal desires overtake the self.

I am not saying block the water from flowing completely. Nor am I saying we should let the water flood the city. No, I am saying that we should direct the water into rivers and streams so that it becomes a source of irrigation.

Promiscousness is an act of pursuit of pleasure. It does not lead to happiness but only leads to want for greater forms of pleasure. Homosexuality (as I was arguing in the other thread) is the same: an act of pursuit for pleasure. Marraige and through it the birth of children is an act of enhancing the value of "the family unit" and a means for the evolution of humanity.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by tariqkhwaja

Promiscousness is an act of pursuit of pleasure. It does not lead to happiness but only leads to want for greater forms of pleasure. Homosexuality (as I was arguing in the other thread) is the same: an act of pursuit for pleasure. Marraige and through it the birth of children is an act of enhancing the value of "the family unit" and a means for the evolution of humanity.

You speak empty words without knowledge, experience or humility.

[tariqkhwaja]

You speak empty words without knowledge, experience or humility.

So then enlighten me. Tell me please exactly which sentence is without knowledge. Which without experience or which is without humility.

Is not the mere 50 year experience of the Western world enough for us where the slow "liberation" of women has led the Western world to want and legalize the greater pursuits for pleasure? Is not the Western world reducing limits on the pursuit of pleasure? And do not people, still, want more? And does it not occur to you that no matter how much you have it will never be enough?

Note that by "you" here I mean the Western world though the trend is very much taking hold in the East as well.

[stephenw]

The Immorality of Pre-marital sex, Extra-marital sex, Homosexuality, and Promiscuousness in General

- Provided sex is consensual and between adults morality or religion or law has no business with it

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by tariqkhwaja

Remember the claim here is not that one should become a monk. Nor is it that one should let his/her carnal desires overtake the self.

I am not saying block the water from flowing completely. Nor am I saying we should let the water flood the city. No, I am saying that we should direct the water into rivers and streams so that it becomes a source of irrigation.

Promiscousness is an act of pursuit of pleasure. It does not lead to happiness but only leads to want for greater forms of pleasure. Homosexuality (as I was arguing in the other thread) is the same: an act of pursuit for pleasure. Marraige and through it the birth of children is an act of enhancing the value of "the family unit" and a means for the evolution of humanity.

I will agree with you at least to this extent, Tariq: Pleasure is not the highest good in life. So far as I know, "happiness", human flourishing, or well-being is a higher good in life -- and that is not the same thing as pleasure.