Birth Control (Jesus, priests, moral, celibacy, contraceptives)

[Ceridwen018]

I used to be a Catholic, so I can attest to their strict laws outlawing birth control. The basic premise here, is that god stated 'go forth and multiply', and so to 'go forth' (is that what they were calling it back then? hehe), without multiplying is a sin, because it is a direct disobedience of god. The actual bible says nothing specifically about contraceptives of any kind. (feel free to prove me wrong on that one, I'm only about 98% sure)

There are a couple of discrepencies I would like to point out, though. First of all, it would be much more accurate to say that the church bans all forms of tangible birth control. Condoms, the pill, etc. However, there is one form that they do allow, and that is called 'rythm'. This entails for the woman to take her temperature every morning and record it, as well as make daily observations of other things... Basically, she is supposed to be able to know when she is ovulating when her body displays certain signs, etc., and then adjust her sex life accordingly. Not only does this method require a huge amount of work and dedication, but it's percent success rate is very sketchy, as a woman's bodily normalcy seems to fluctuate as it wills somtimes. My qualm here, is that at the heart of the matter, it is no different from any other kind of birth control, because guess what? ITS PURPOSE IS TO PREVENT CONCEPTION!!

Another hypocrisy: Preists and nuns are required to observe a life of celibacy. How are they contributing to the multiplication here??

[Alaric]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

Preists and nuns are required to observe a life of celibacy. How are they contributing to the multiplication here??

I think this was because during the early Christian times, there was this annoying problem with priests dividing up their parishes among their children, which of course wasn't very helpful. So they decide that the priest must dedicate himself wholly to God, etc, spreading his memes instead of his genes, so to speak. Sneaky ********, those Catholics. :killme:

[trishtrish10]

i am a practicing roman catholic. we are all responsible for birth control, especially if we have a lot of kids and just can't handle anymore. birth control pills now a days are also abortificients, in other words they are milder and allow conception to occur but abort the child so it can't develop. very young age of a few days or so. as a scientist i have suspected and lately confirmed that estrogen shots, which are given to women with hysterectomies and birth control pills cause cancer. that's why breast cancer is more prevalent now because more women are on the pill and shots. the natural rhythym method is the only safe and moral way to control birth and is just as effective as the pill if used methodically and one understands the female body. next to love, sex is the greatest urge and is hard to control once pandora's box is opened. God made it that way so that we would propagate the race, because children are a lifetime responsibility once born and few would have them because of that. sex is fun to 99% of the human race. priests and nuns are celibate because that must give everything to God which includes all pleasures. one must suffer if one wants a better life and afterlife. Jesus taught us how to suffer in a supreme way. pleasure is not a sin, but it brings gratification if it's not sought otherwise one is never satisfied. accept it when it comes your way unless it would not benefit u or someone else(harm). u may have been catholic but u didn't do ure research and find out what the true church teaching on this subject is. Pope Paul VI was ridiculed for speaking out against(infalliby) artificial birth control, but in the end he was right. it has lead to abortion which could lead to euthanasia and infanticide, already partial birth abortions are being performed like in Wichita where as the baby's head pop's out(and it could live on it's own), the brains are sucked out so they can use the body for research. the bigger the body the bigger the price they get for it. u would be wise to vote pro-life legislators into office to stop this holocaust. the choice was made when they had sex. the fundamental right to live is more fundamental than a woman's control of her body. she needs to start controlling her mind because she will have physical and psychological side effects from an abortion.

[Ceridwen018]

I agree that there are health risks associated with birth control pills, but that does not make it amoral. Neither is rythm the only healthy way--what about condoms, etc.?

Partial Birth Abortions have been made illegal....unless, are they still legal in Wichita?

For the record, I am extremely pro-life. However, I think that contraception (which does not involve terminating a pregnancy, even in it's earliest stages) is ok and at times necessary. As far as birth control pills causing health problems in women, that information is pretty well supplied I think...therefore women know they are using them at their own risk (in this sense, I am pro-choice, haha, let the woman do with her body what she wants as long as she's not sharing it with a little one).

Rhythm is reliable to an extent, but the margin for error is so tight...A woman's body is at times an unpredictable thing. I don't really see how other forms of contraception are any different really. They both prevent pregnancy. Whats the difference if you use a condom or rhythm? I'm not seeing it.

[Scott1]

trishtrish10,

Great post! Keep defending the truth!

Peace,
Scott

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

trishtrish10,

Great post! Keep defending the truth!

Peace,
Scott

It's hardly truth unless truth in the Catholic Church is relative to the times. The early church (from the 5th century up to the 17th century) allowed abortion up to the time of the fetus quickening.

ABORTION: ANCIENT CHRISTIAN BELIEFS

Originally Posted by trishtrish1

...already partial birth abortions are being performed like in Wichita where as the baby's head pop's out(and it could live on it's own), the brains are sucked out so they can use the body for research. the bigger the body the bigger the price they get for it.

I do beleive that you are not stating facts. Do you have references for both that particular procedure where presentation head is first and that the corpse is sold? It sounds like misinformation "making the rounds" for emotional effect - another Religious Right urban legend.

-pah-

[painted wolf]

simply saying 'go forth and multiply' is irrespnsible. Look at the problems we have with overpopulation. Personally I don't think 'God' intended us to over-run all of creation with swarming masses.

the pro-side to condoms is not only do they help prevent pregnancy, (with a higher success rate than 'rythem') but they also help prevent the spread of disease. One of the biggest reasons AIDS has spread so quickly in Africa in recent years is that the powers-that-be (ie. the churches) have been activly campaining AGAINST using condoms. Some have gone so far as to say that AIDS is caused by Condoms or that AIDS is not the result of HIV, or that it is a curse by witches/ insert evil doer here.

Wanting women to simply be baby factories is bad enough, but the anti-condom movement is sick on a whole 'nother level.

back, closer on track here. My faith does not discourage birth control. Parenthood is a blessing, but honestly some people arn't ready for it. children should be charished not resented.

wa:do

[dan]

The purpose of the sexual act is not only procreation. It also serves to strengthen the bonds of intimacy in a marriage. The Catholic Church misunderstands this doctrine.

In the Bible (more specifically, the Torah) contraceptives that impede or destroy the male's "seed" (condoms, diaphrams, withdrawal) are forbidden, whereas birth control pills are not condemned. The Jews understand a little better the role of sex in a marriage. It is the male's responsibility in a Jewish marriage to make sure his wife is satisfied whenever she wants. The wife has no similar obligation towards her husband. The husband is not allowed to travel for long enough to deny his wife satisfaction for more than a certain period of time. They take sex very seriously and understand much better the sanctity and the practicality of the act.

[civilcynic]

There is an irony about the Catholic Church's position on sexual relations and birth control. The Church is vehemently opposed to all froms of birth control except for abstinence and the 'rhythm method' yet they also emphasize the importance of sexual relations in marriage as well as the importance of submitting to one's husband.

If her husband wants sex, the wife is supposed to submit but how is she supposed to do this if she is using abstinence or the rhythm method? Does she obey the submitting part and keep her fingers crossed that she doesn't get pregnant or does she refuse to avoid pregnancy she doesn't want or can't afford due to financial or health risks?

As for the Rhythm method....It's success rate is dismal and there are many women who cannot use it at all because of irregularity in menstrual cycles.

As for the potential health risks of birth control pills, give me a break! More individuals die after getting into a car accident than women who get breast cancer from birth control pills. Should everyone stop driving because they have an increased risk of getting killed in a car accident.

Lastly, I keep hearing people vivdly describe late-term abortions and wave their gruesome pictures of dead fetuses but how about the butchery that occurred when abortions were not legal. Have you ever seen pictures of women who have had a botched abortion....talk about gruesome....I find it interesting that whenever the abortion issue comes up, the cry from the pro-life contingent is about late-term abortions rather than the use of birth control methods such as the pill. Instead they use the fear tactic that the pill can kill you such as giving you breast cancer. Well, folks, penicillan can kill, heart medication can kill, blood thinners can kill, etc;....there are always risks. Furthermore, the number of late-term abortions are very small and, since it is very risky, is rarely done except under extreme circumstances such as when the woman's life is at risk.

My advice is that if you oppose birth control and/or abortion than don't do it! If you believe a woman has a right to prevent pregnancy through the means of birth control then practice what you preach. If you oppose abortion....don't get one! If you believe that the right to have an abortion is your choice than follow that. I wish more people would worry about their own salvation and relationship with God than trying to impose their views down everyone elses throat.

[Scott1]

civilcynic,

There is an irony about the Catholic Church's position on sexual relations and birth control.

Nope.... you just don't understand it, there is a difference.

Let me point out at least one of thethings you misunderstand about this particular subject:

If her husband wants sex, the wife is supposed to submit but how is she supposed to do this if she is using abstinence or the rhythm method?

2339 Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy.126 "Man's dignity therefore requires him to act out of conscious and free choice, as moved and drawn in a personal way from within, and not by blind impulses in himself or by mere external constraint. Man gains such dignity when, ridding himself of all slavery to the passions, he presses forward to his goal by freely choosing what is good and, by his diligence and skill, effectively secures for himself the means suited to this end."127

Can't hold off your urges????

Smack her with a club and drag her back to your cave............

Naaaaaaaaaaah, I'll stick to chastity.

Care to actually learn something before you comment about the "irony"?????????.....
If so, do some reading here: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a4.htm#2197

Peace,
Scott