Evil God

[spiritually inclined]

There is no "good" or "evil" in the eyes of the gods. Try looking through their eyes sometimes. You think they got it easy just because they live forever and have some powers we don't have? The decisions they have to make for the survival of humanity are very hard, and sometimes for the good of the whole, sacrifices have to be made.

"Magic" still has to obey the laws of physics.

I think it is more likely that the Hebrew scriptures reflect the mythology of these early people, and that mythology included a god that could be very aggressive or very loving, a very diverse being. I think literalizing many passages in the Old Testament goes further than the writings intended. This is, after all, a collection of mythology. Some of the views expressed in that mythology reflect a barbaric age and an understanding of God (or the gods, elohim) that held him/them responsible for all events in the universe.

I accept that bad things happen. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the supernatural.

James

[tomspug]

Originally Posted by MachineWashCold

Wow. It's not close to the same thing. A movie is a movie. It's not real. Women and children are real. There's no fake blood or cheesy special effects, someone actually feels the pain and someone actually dies in real life.

You SAY that it's not close to the same thing. Yet we're disturbed when we read the book 1984 and there is a crowd of people being entertained watching a boat full of people being gunned down by a helicopter.

[Boiled Brain]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

You'll find that in one book, YHWH is aggressive and murderous, and in the other, kind and loving.

Of course kind and loving. Paul, when worked out the christian doctrine, was exposed to modern in that time greek philosophy which doesn' have any similarities with cruel jewish myths.

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Besides, in his eyes, and in the eyes of the ones who wrote the Torah, those women and children were not innocent;

We live in 21 century and you still justify aggressive things of ancient peoples?

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

they were sinful.

Of course they were sinful. Chief said so.
What about newborns? They were also sinful? What about... cattle? They were sinful too?

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

[/b]There is no "good" or "evil" in the eyes of the gods.

Really? God said "Adam and Eve are now like we are. Now they know what evil and good are" (something like that).

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

The decisions they have to make for the survival of humanity are very hard,

He made the Universe in 6 days and in the same time it's hard for him to help
small group of cattlebreeders to survive?

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

and sometimes for the good of the whole, sacrifices have to be made.

Actually Hitler did the same. Maybe he was the... Messiah?

[Boiled Brain]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

The majority of people who worship YHWH do not kill people. It's against their creed.

Untill religion has political power again.

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

And before you start pointing fingers to the terrorists, they are going straight to Hell. Guarantee it.

To hell? To christian hell - yes. And you are going to islamic hell on the other hand

[Boiled Brain]

Originally Posted by tomspug

I don't get it. You believe that god is evil, and yet you don't believe in God. What exactly are you getting at?

I don't believe in any god. I just said you love god who killed innocent people. And asked why.

Originally Posted by tomspug

then why not have problems with God destroying Sodom and Gomorrah or causing The Flood.

Because I don't believe in god. Why YOU don't have any problems with holy murders?

Originally Posted by tomspug

why God allows ANYTHING bad to happen to ANY innocents EVER.

Maybe just because there is no god?

Originally Posted by tomspug

The innocent are damned by those that are NOT, not by God.

The bible says differently.

Originally Posted by tomspug

The whole notion of families being punished for the sins of the father is prevalent in the entire Bible. You can choose to disagree with that if you want, but that is the reason for verses like this. It doesn't make God evil, by necessity, like you're trying to argue.

Cruelty of the god corresponds to cruelty of ancient people who made him up.

Originally Posted by tomspug

The Jewish vision of "the sins of the father" could be wrong, which would make their view of God incorrect, but it certainly doesn't make God evil, it makes our understanding of God warped.

That means we should not believe the bible?

[Riverwolf]

The bible is not black and white. Don't forget that it wasn't written by God, it was inspired by God. There is no way for us to know what YHWH wants. The people writing the Bible would have gotten many things wrong.

And by the way, creating the Earth is one thing. In creating the earth, he also created the laws of physics, which he has to obey when he interacts with the world. He did things, and the Jews interpreted those things in the ways that they could understand. The Jews did things, and they claimed in their holy book that the one they worshiped instructed them to do everything they said. But Jesus came down and told them that they weren't following YHWH at all.

And I didn't say I agreed with their barbaric ways. I just gave what I think the reasoning behind it was. Don't forget, they were humans, not demons. We are all capable of "evil". And I know HItler tried to do the same thing. I stress to you that I don't approve AT ALL of the slaughtering of innocents any more than you do. It's just that I understand that these people were flawed as we are flawed. And they viewed those innocents the way you view Christians, as heathens following evil gods and doing evil things. Unlike you, however, the only way they knew how to deal with such people was to eradicate them as they had not yet learned how to forgive and coincide.

And to MachineWashCold, forgiveness is about purging oneself of hate, not about letting someone else go. Forgiveness from a human is very different from forgiveness from a god.

[Tau]

Originally Posted by +Xausted

I am not one to play semantics , however I really believe you should go back and read your post! You can not on one hand say that God doesnt exist, then on the next say that He killed innocent people.
Please just clarify were you stand, otherwise there can be no meaningful discussion

I dont think you understand xausted....the poster is saying while he himself does not believe in God he does not see why Christians would worship a God that is now and then, genocidal, because that is what is written in the Bible, repeatedly, whether God is actually real or not is utterly irrelevant for the purposes of the original question....

Hence why I dont believe the Bible is empirical, in it God acts like any other cheap human tyrant......until Jesus steps in....but anyway.

[Azakel]

Well if one is asking Christians why they worship this God then way nit ask the Jews, and maybe the Muslims too. It's all the same God for all 3.

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by tomspug

You SAY that it's not close to the same thing. Yet we're disturbed when we read the book 1984 and there is a crowd of people being entertained watching a boat full of people being gunned down by a helicopter.

Usually in the movies we cheer the heroes who vanquish evil. Murdering innocent women and children can never be considered "vanquishing evil", so it's a ridicilous comparison.