Evil God

[Boiled Brain]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

You said that Christians want to kill everybody who doesn't agree with them.

That's right. When church had power, people who were not agree with its dogmas were persecuted and died on fire. Our happiness is that religion doesn't have power today.

[spiritually inclined]

That's right. When church had power, people who were not agree with its dogmas were persecuted and died on fire. Our happiness is that religion doesn't have power today.

Religion actually still has lots of power over lives and political influence. It just isn't as powerful as it once was, at least in the US.

There are good and bad people in religions. Some use religion for good. Some use it for evil. Some use it to ponder and reflect and think outside the box. Some use it to restrict and limit the brain, parroting off lame dogma.

James

[Riverwolf]

Tell me, Boiled Brain. Have you actually read the Bible? That is, all of it? You'll find that in one book, YHWH is aggressive and murderous, and in the other, kind and loving.

Besides, in his eyes, and in the eyes of the ones who wrote the Torah, those women and children were not innocent; they were sinful.

"Evil" is a completely human concept. Among the gods, "good" and "evil" do not exist. In nature, "good" and "evil" do not exist. From evil good things can happen, and from good evil things can happen. Referring back to Lord of the Rings, after Gil-Galad overthrew Sauron and Isildur cut the Ring from His hand, a "good" thing, it resulted in Isildur claiming the Ring for his own, leading to his death, the loss of the Ring, its finding by Smeagol who becomes Gollum, and very fact that the Ring survives, which is an "evil" thing. On the other hand,
***SPOILER***
"evil" occurs when Frodo is finally ensnared by the Ring and claims it for himself, drawing Sauron's eye towards Mount Doom, and causing Gollum to bite Frodo's finger off. But from that, Gollum trips and falls into the pit of fire with the Ring, causing "good". Again, the "good" of the overthrow of Saruman by the Ents led to the Scouring of the Shire, an "evil" thing.
***END SPOILER***

There is no "good" or "evil" in the eyes of the gods. Try looking through their eyes sometimes. You think they got it easy just because they live forever and have some powers we don't have? The decisions they have to make for the survival of humanity are very hard, and sometimes for the good of the whole, sacrifices have to be made.

"Magic" still has to obey the laws of physics.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by Boiled Brain

I'm just interested.
There is no agression.
Why do people (who believe in god) make other people believe too? Otherwise they want to kill those who don't believe.

Dude, welcome to the 21st century. The majority of people who worship YHWH do not kill people. It's against their creed. And before you start pointing fingers to the terrorists, they are going straight to Hell. Guarantee it.

[tomspug]

Originally Posted by Boiled Brain

I am not interested in verbiage. It has no sense. I know exactly that god killed innocent people. Did your read the bible?


Of course I’m not looking for any excuse to disbelieve. I don’t believe in Christian god (or god of any other religion) on the same reason you don’t believe in Santa Claus or Pink Elephant on the Moon.

I don't get it. You believe that god is evil, and yet you don't believe in God. What exactly are you getting at?

The problem with this argument is that it focuses on the wrong verses. If you have a problem with God giving direct orders to kill innocents (who have fathers and direct relatives who AREN'T) then why not have problems with God destroying Sodom and Gomorrah or causing The Flood. Heck, why not complain about why God allows ANYTHING bad to happen to ANY innocents EVER.

The innocent are damned by those that are NOT, not by God. The whole notion of families being punished for the sins of the father is prevalent in the entire Bible. You can choose to disagree with that if you want, but that is the reason for verses like this. It doesn't make God evil, by necessity, like you're trying to argue.

The Jewish vision of "the sins of the father" could be wrong, which would make their view of God incorrect, but it certainly doesn't make God evil, it makes our understanding of God warped.

[Riverwolf]

Boiled Brain, I don't know how old you are, but you are displaying the knowledge of religion that a 12 year old would have, or a stubborn child in an adult's body. Not long ago, I had the exact same response to Joshua as you did, that he was murdering innocent people. I still hold to that. BUT I have found it in my heart to forgive him. I see no reason to hold a grudge against a god, who has intellect, wisdom, knowledge, and just about every mental description on a level that makes us look like flies. I don't approve of what he ordered his people to do any more than you do. But if you want to see some real heat and what this kind of question means to believers who are as closed-minded as you, ask it on Yahoo-Answers.

Besides, when ants come into your home, what do you do? When mice go after your food, what do you do? If a mosquito is trying to suck your blood, what do you do? If a bear were to charge you because she thought you were threatening her cub, what would you do?(assuming you could do anything)

You'd commit murder.

There is blood on all our hands.

Just like Jesus said.

"If your slate is clean, then you can throw stones. If your slate is not, then leave her alone!"

[MachineWashCold]

Originally Posted by tomspug

I like how people can disregard an entire religion because they can't understand a couple of verses. Did you create this topic because you actually believe the Christian concept of God is evil (proven by a couple of verses you found on the internet vs. the rest of the entire Bible) or because you are looking for an excuse to disregard a religion that, above all, is based on the idea of loving others, above all else?

Because most people think that a religion which claims to provide the only way to the Almighty should be infallible, and as such have no incongruities between the way that its god is percieved and the offenses that its god commits. Even one bible verse is not insignificant, if it is truly the word of God.

Originally Posted by tomspug

Let me ask you a question... Have you ever seen the movie Gladiator... or the movie Braveheart... or Lord of the Rings? Why is it that we CHEER and APPLAUD when the hero of a movie goes on a murderous rampage against others? We cheer because it is apparent to us that justice is being served and that the actions of violent behavior are justified.

How then can you be entertained by these movies and at the same time criticize a concept of a God that does the EXACT SAME THING?

Wow. It's not close to the same thing. A movie is a movie. It's not real. Women and children are real. There's no fake blood or cheesy special effects, someone actually feels the pain and someone actually dies in real life.

[MachineWashCold]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Boiled Brain, I don't know how old you are, but you are displaying the knowledge of religion that a 12 year old would have, or a stubborn child in an adult's body. Not long ago, I had the exact same response to Joshua as you did, that he was murdering innocent people. I still hold to that. BUT I have found it in my heart to forgive him. I see no reason to hold a grudge against a god, who has intellect, wisdom, knowledge, and just about every mental description on a level that makes us look like flies. I don't approve of what he ordered his people to do any more than you do. But if you want to see some real heat and what this kind of question means to believers who are as closed-minded as you, ask it on Yahoo-Answers.

Besides, when ants come into your home, what do you do? When mice go after your food, what do you do? If a mosquito is trying to suck your blood, what do you do? If a bear were to charge you because she thought you were threatening her cub, what would you do?(assuming you could do anything)

You'd commit murder.

There is blood on all our hands.

Just like Jesus said.

"If your slate is clean, then you can throw stones. If your slate is not, then leave her alone!"

The Christian god is supposed to be perfect. In my mind if he is not perfect (requiring forgiveness), then he must not exist.

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by gnomon

Why do people who eat babies want to build a house out of pop tarts?

We don't.